Math on why you need to buff Blood necro

Necromancer
1

At 2100% Overpower damage+Corpse tenedrils.
Blood Surge Overpower crits for 140k-220k depending on things.
Lets average it at 180k.

This means, i need 16 Overpowered crits, to deal the same amount of damage as one Bonespear.
or, 192 seconds worth of Rathmas Vigor charges.

Honestly, how was the 15 second to 12 second Rathmas Vigor buff, the ONLY buff you gave us?

The balance disparity is MASSIVE. Its the size of all the oceans combined. A bone necro can press one button, go take a massive constipated poop, and by the time he gets back to his keyboard, he still did more damage than a fully optimized Blood necro who was actively playing the game the whole time.

Give real buffs, OR deliver the nerf sledgehammer to these builds that are obviously overperforming and completing content that should honestly require the likes of high end uniques, AND being lvl100 to even do without dying to the first elite pack.

2 Likes
2

No one cares kid.
Ur weak and ur woman hearts afreaka

3

I also have 2100% overpower, 26k unbuffed hp and mine hit from 500k to 1.6m. It is still not enough, thats for sure.

I would play around with deathspeaker amulet and maybe ring of medeln. It procs all the time with that combination and makes your whole screen light up, its fun.

4

Not many things affect overpower damage. So focus on those few things (hp fortify and overpower) then rest is damage reduction.

I facetsnk everything through tier 60. Tbd on higher tiers

5

Overpower doesn’t crit. No it doesn’t.

6

I tried Deathspeaker Amulet with Blood Artisan’s Cuirass last night. It’s pretty fun although to me a bit underwhelming. It was pretty funny when I deleted an entire screen :smile:

1 Like
7

Amulet basically multiplies your overpower novas most of the time by x6 (amount of reapers) or more if your mages close too but they usually in the back. Add the ring and bone prision and your minions become a good extension of your damage (amulet and ring damage is not base on minion damage but your damage).

Still not as strong as bone spear but you are really tanky and it’s fun to play. You can handle NMDs 20+ your level if you get your build right.

1 Like
8

I grind nm 50s with deathspeaker/mendeln. Its really fun, the sustain is great and you clear rooms very comfortably.

Blood surge will be the best build for clearing. Hopefully to also push but your DR will need to be on point

1 Like
9

I don’t think blood surge should do as much damage as bone spear and I say that as blood surge necro.

Bone spear have pretty low survivability, thats why they keep at range. I can walk into mob pile of like 10 mobs and 3+ elites, hit them, corpse tendrils them and then go from 15% hp left to 100% + fortified within one or two blood surge taps. It’s way more survivable than blood spear and because of it blood surge should never do as much damage as blood spear.

That being said, it does need a buff because I can already foresee that blood surge will probably make nighmare dungeons of level 50+ pretty hard and 70+ probably borderline not worth it or impossible and thats a problem when you have one build that just wipes everything, it’s even an issue if you have a few of those builds but one sucking.

I guess build is similar enough that I can swap to blood lance but I hear mixed things on it. Point is that blood surge needs a buff and here what I think it should be.

-Essence Cost Reduced. It’s kinda wild that the close range core skill takes more essence than everything else. This could make it way easier to manage single targets and not just crowds.

-Defense buff, this can work well with fortify which is great for this build but 10% is not that amazing, so fortification should add higher defensive bonus (20%-35%) as well as that blood skill chance to fortify passive should have higher chance to fortify you. It’s easy to fortify with blood orbs, sure but again, this is chance based, plus you need an aspect, plus only works well on crowds.

-Single target damage buff. I know I said it don’t need flat damage buff but thats for crowds. Single targets can be an issue and I feel like if the initial drain did higher damage to single target, that would work well. For example, say initial drain before explosion is 2.5k for you in tooltip of the blood surge. What if it was 10k instead and reduced by 1k per mob hit, to minimum of 2k. This means nothing changes for crowd damage and heal but would be a pretty massive heal and damage buff vs single target.

-Overpower needs to proc faster so that one handed is not basically a must. Have overpower proc on every 4th or 3rd blood surge, or perhaps make it 6 but count blood surge echoes as their own hit. Then change Rathma vigor not to give you overpower hit but instead double your next overpower damage every 10 seconds.

3 Likes
10

I’ve been saccing the mages for the overpower damage because they are usually in the wrong place to do damage with the explosions as you state. Not sure if it’s better than running the mages but I like it so far.

1 Like
11

The summoner blood necro is viable but so is summonless. It’s true that you get blood novas around your summons with certain amulet, but then you also could instead focus on your own stats and sacrifice bonuses and do just fine. I got the amulet myself in stash, idk if it’s a bad roll or what but it says it does around 220 damage or so per nova, like ok? Even if I have every minion active thats like what? 22k-25k dmg if they all hit same target? I do more with single blood nova myself and get benefit of sacrifices and other stats.

12

It is because it doesn’t scale with skill investment atm. So a level 9 blood surge or blood lance does the same over power damage as a level 1. It is a huge issue that they have yet to address and I am hopeful they will on the 18th.

1 Like
13

I quite like the deathspeaker + mendeln + mothers embrace synergy with full pets, it gives you the aoe clearing and tankiness of surge combined with the boss killing of mendeln + prison, with no essence issues due to mothers + essence cold mages, probably the most ‘fun’ build i’ve tried so far. Of course spear just kills stuff before it even shows on the screen and with exposed flesh it’s just a faceroll in any content - but it’s not really ‘fun’

14

Their Nova is way higher than 20k per minion, they do about the same damage as you each

15

That does not add up since necklace straight up says 200ish-400ish damage mini nova, so how are they gonna hit for 20k+ per minion?

I guess I can try it with bone prison or something and see but issue here is that I don’t even have enough space on my skill bar to use it. I run reap, surge, tendrils, bone storm, blood mist, and corpse explosion. All of those is a must for the build, so I can’t even really get rid of any of it for bone prison much less for minions.

Problem is that this necklace eating away from two ends of the same stick, not allowing either blood surge build nor minion build to shine. To have minions means I wont have sacrifice bonuses, which are massive for mage and golem. I also would need to spread my gear affixes between both. This honestly feels more like another minion build unique rather than blood surge.

16

*40% overpower damage and one less aspect to slot for mostly useless minions ? looks like a good trade

17

The same way a wand and a two handed do almost the same overpower damage, no surprise there since overpower mechanic is mess up.

18

Yes, you don’t use affixes for minions just like the minion ring unique build. I could clear low NM60 at lv90, nothing to brag about but it’s just another type of blood surge build.

19

In the original note, and this thread, it says “math”.

No math is show just numbers being pulled from the ether. No game designer can take this seriously as evidence, but they can at least take the disappointment as feedback.

Assuming a target hit creates a final number on screen that is 80% of its original value, then 180,000 is 80% of 225,000. Assuming we’re talking about a Siphon hit of Blood Surge, and it is at rank 1 because of common advice, then 225,000 is 20% of 1,125,000.

Assuming the person is stacking health and has around 24,000, then their full life + fortify is 48,000. The Overpower % is 2100% can be expressed as x22 or 48,000 x 22 = 1,056,000.

There is a missing 69,000 (heh) number here, but that can made up for with weapon damage + all modifiers affecting that (since Overpower is a health driver metric plus normal damage).

The numbers expressed here are of course just reflections what was used as hypothetical, but Overpower is working as it says. There may be other mechanics under the hood, but it is hard to tell when folks toss around numbers without context.

[The issue with Blood is there aren’t any meaningful x% multipliers in legendary aspects like there are for Bone or Shadow. Aspects supporting Bone Splinters, Ossified Essence, or Aspect of Blight/Decay raise certain damage in a multiplicative way Blood skills cannot achieve. Blood skills scale better of attack speed but not direct big damage hitting multipliers. It is disappointing in its own way.]

20

So I think this is where you are getting tripped up is on how the scaling works.

Ignore the base damage of the blood surges, it really doesn’t matter. The minions blood surges from DS scale with the Necromancer’s overpower damage. This means that each minion blood surge, when it overpowers, his for roughly the same damage (a tiny bit less base damage) than your Blood Surge.

So lets use my necro as an example. I have 22k hp/fort, and 2000% overpower damage.
My blood surge his for like 3k. My minions hit for like 250 damage.

(22k+22k)*20= 880,000 overpower damage

My blood surge will hit for 883,000 overpower damage
My minions blood surge will hit for 880,260 overpower damage.

With 6 warriors and 1 golem, I do approx 7 times more damage than without using the minions/deathspeaker. Using the example above, one blood surge overpower (assuming my minions are aliive and in range), can do about 7 million or so damage.

The only negatives I found of using the Deathspeaker build is three things.

  1. You lose your amulet aspect, which is your strongest aspect in terms of raw numbers, but you gain way more damage so it doesn’t matter.
  2. In harder (NM70+) content it’s hard to keep your minions alive in some elite battles, so it’s hard to keep optimal DPS up sometimes. You’ll still outdamage the minion-less build as long as you have 1-2 minions alive though.
  3. You lose hotbar economy (2 skill slots for warriors/golem). This is the biggest issue but it’s fine since you really only lose like decrepify which you can get back in season 1 anyway.

The main thing I see people on the forums at least doing is going Deathspeakers, but also running the mages and not using the sacrifice aspect/passive. So they are losing like 1000% overpower damage for mages that do almost no damage and are almost never in the right position to blood surge. My point is that by running a “half” minion build where you sacrifice just mages and keep the sacrifice bonuses, you can do roughly the same overpower damage (per each overpower) as the minion-less build, but you do that same damage 7x more often.