Make Loot Useful Again

The fact that I can log in to an ARPG and not care about 99% of what loot drops feels like a massive miss on what should be a core system within the game. Normal/Magic/Rare items basically serve no function in the game except a 5-10 bridge until I find a legendary or a few extra materials later in the game. Legendaries also serve about no purpose since players really only care about ancestral items with at least 1GA on them. It feels really bad finding a decent legendary amulet, with maybe a passive or two on it, but knowing its not worth really sinking any materials into it because it has no crafting tail and will just be replaced by an ancestral in the not too distant future.

I think implementing some system such as below, that would make any kind of loot a lot more interesting and engaging, instead of feeling disappointed when legendaries drop or ignoring 99% of items in the game.

So it would be nice if we had a way to add affixes and give players some chance through crating to potentially upgrade an affix to a GA. For example

Normal items - add an affix (increases IP to and is now a magic item)

Magic items - add an affix (increases IP to and is now a legendary item)

Legendary items - create a crafting system that lets players either choose an affix or selects a random affix that will be upgraded to a GA. This can be a relatively steep cost and a fail% chance. (increases IP to and is now a ancestral legendary item)

Ancestral items - same system that allowed affixes to be upgraded to a GA. Maybe either have a limit on chances and/or very steep costs with some %fail chance.

Just a thought.

9 Likes

White, Magic, Rare, Legendary, and Unique items all serve no purpose. The only items that matter are Ancestrals.

That’s where they ruined the game. Every item type should be useful. Like they were in Diablo II. That doesn’t mean every drop is useful. Just that every rarity had possible value, and function.

The fact that the Dev Team doesn’t get this, and most of the community doesn’t get this, makes me incredibly sad.

I’m also not saying to turn D4 into a D2 clone. Just that they need to take well thought out things like this and Expand on them in a current game design.

10 Likes

Just insert a high damage multiplier to each rarity tier. Then people will often gravitate towards the big numbers. If all my gears are white and I’m dealing 1 billion damage each hit I don’t care about rarity. Though this is assuming monster only have 1 billion health pool.

The loot in this game is boring. Days and days of speed farming all content and nothing interesting ever drops.

And when ga items do drop there’s no excitement because it’s probably trash.

And if it isn’t trash there’s no excitement because it took days to finally drop something decent.

Mythics are boring. They’re pretty easy to get.

Give me that “holy sh…” moment. Godly drops that are rare but actually powerful.

5 Likes

This is basically every looter ARPG, ever. If you were arguing that it would be cool if it wasn’t like that - sure, okay. Unlikely, but not unreasonable.

Types. Not loot.
99% of the drops in Diablo II were still trash.

I don’t need some ham-fisted reason to make common loot “useful.” I’m sorry I just don’t really see how that makes the game better. It just adds complication, and complication for its own sake is meaningless.

2 Likes

Wrong. 99% of the drops in D2 were trash if you were a novice player. Those who knew, knew how many different variations of each loot tier could be useful/tradable, or kept for crafting, and not “chance to brick” crafting but REAL crafting, or used for rerolling. There were so many options. With D4 it’s “finally a good item. bricked it. done” or “I haven’t found anything I can use or trade in a month”.

5 Likes

Working as intended.

They taking a page from Borderlands franchise where most loot is useless - but you might get something cool? possibly? maybe?

Keep playing to find out!

Even Borderlands loot was more interesting because there wasn’t just one type of good loot. In D4 it’s now Ancestral or nothing.

4 Likes

How itemization should work is as follows:

  • All Rarity of items will now have 3 Affixes
  • Rarities include Magic, Rare, Legendary, and Ancestral (New)
  • iLvl determines the Maximum Affix Value (ceiling)
  • Rarity determines the Minimum Affix Value (floor)
  • The higher the iLvl, the higher the Affix Maximum / Range. The more Rare an item, the higher the Minimum Affix values are.
  • All Rarities can now be useful and BiS. Higher Rarity reduces the RNG and these items will have a higher likelihood of being “better”
  • Greater Affixes are removed.
  • Affix Values get adjusted (boosted) due to Greater Affixes being removed.
  • All Rarities can drop regardless of the Tier of content. Enemy Level and Tier determines iLvl of drops. This creates continuity and you will not have obsolete items the moment you jump a tier and progression feels more incremental.
  • Normal (White) Items can now be used to Transmute Items.
  • Transmuting an Item will allow you to take any Unique Item (non-Mythic) and Transmute it into a different Unique Item of the same type. The Affixes will be the same value as the Unique Item you are Transmuting.
  • For example, if you find Overkill and a Normal 2H Mace, you can use the Normal 2H Mace to Transmute Overkill, which would give you Hellhammer. Transmuting Ramas however may produce Third Blade, Azurewrath, Shard of Verathiel, or Butcher’s Cleaver.
  • Transmuting would only be able to be done once per item. Transmuted items cannot be traded and receive the Transmuted Tag.
  • Transmuting can also be done to turn items of the same category into another item of the same category. For example, you find a 2H Normal Polearm and have an exceptional 2H Ancestral Sword. You would be able to Transmute it to a Polearm while retaining all Affixes and iLvl.
  • Normal Items would not be able to be bought and have the same drop rate in all Tiers of content.
  • Tempering System overhauled.
  • All Rarities of items can be Tempered twice.
  • Tempering Durability has been removed.
  • Tempering values always roll at the Maximum value and scale with iLvl.
  • Tempering Recipe Rarity still determines Tempering potency.
  • Tempering Costs have increased as these are essentially one-time applications unless you need to change the Temper or Upgrade the Temper.
  • When the Tempering system is unlocked, all Tempers become available as Magic (lowest Rarity).
  • Tempering Recipes no longer drop, instead Rarities are unlocked at certain Character Levels (cLvl) similar to how the Alchemist works.
  • The Maximum Tempering Rarity that can be unlocked via leveling is Legendary. Tempers can only be Upgraded to Ancestral via Tempering Scrolls.
  • Enchanting now becomes viable again. Whether it is to get a 2/3 item to 3/3 or a 3/3 item to Enchant an Affix until you get a Max Value.
  • Boots, Rings, and Amulets can now all have (2) Aspects applied. Boots can have 1 Utility and 1 Movement Aspect, Rings can have 1 Offensive and 1 Resource Aspect, and Amulets can have 1 Offensive, Movement, Resource, or Defensive Aspect and 1 Utility Aspect.
  • Unique/Mythic Boots can have 1 Movement Aspect added, Rings can have 1 Resource Aspect added, Amulets can have 1 Utility Aspect added.
  • This gives all players 1 Movement Aspect, 2 Resource Aspects, and 1 Utility Aspect, regardless if you have all Unique/Mythic items.
  • The Aspect Budget economy makes it very challenging to ever take these Aspects, and in light of how Unique/Mythic items are so valuable now as more and more items are added, this is needed. Having these categories is hardly game-breaking level of power-creep, especially since we are talking about removing GAs.
2 Likes

They cant make loot meaningful, there is limited stash space to keep them if they take your suggest below. It is an intended design :joy:

The last time I solved my stash space issue was my gears become legacy. The way I solve my stash issue this season is temper as many of them as possible, so I can salvage those brick items :dizzy_face:

1 Like

while i can agree, and in someway, miss upgrading options for the white and blue gear, which.
What you can use it for atm, is two things imo, One to lessen the strength of a character and create challenge if there is none to be found with certain builds and gear etc.

Two, is using it to learn the game and somewhat figure things out with less affix’s involved for those learning in game, new to D4 or something like that, perhaps wanting to try out affix’s for free and for cheap. Obviously SSF is involved here.

That all said, I miss the fact at the very least we could “mw” upgrade the old blue and white gear to 5 stars. and part of me misses ancestral blues since they looked cool with the effect imo, making a blue ancestral was kind of fun.

and I miss sacred items. So while function is overall better, I hope they add back into the loot at some stage, it makes sense to dial it back atm though until things are sorted better.

While I like your thinking, the problem i see, is that if you allow that, it means spending more mats for little gain, why would i turn a white to blue etc, if i cannot temper, and since finding rare is easy and printable, and leveling is fast now, even more on alts and if i have obols or gold i can skip blues.

That is the problem, in the old slower game, it was somewhat more viable to upgrade blues and whites if you wanted to save mats, but now, what you propose adds a crafting train to the game which is interesting for sure, however obsolete and players won’t use it. I mean the didn’t use it before as much as it was.

I think I don’t really want more time crafting as is, I think the crafting needs to be not overly time consuming, I don’t think a arpg should be too much like a mmo.

Instead I think Ideas like the cube, weapons with charges, magical powers, cursed weapons, throwing knives, idk things like that would be a better way to use other gear,

SO for example its a blue item, and casts lightning pulses or whatever, and has 50 charges or maybe perma, special effect, perhaps it can be upgraded with a temper or simply MWorked with a out of 5 cap or something.

Just spitballing but that is what i would bring into the mix, adding to the bottom tier crafting chain , was basically already done and skipped over by most. :man_shrugging:

If they did something about trading, and gifting items, this would change the game.
I only play SSF and normal legs and unique will be used when GA doesn’t drop and isn’t a useful GA, :man_shrugging: So yeah , it’s like designing too different games when you are not a mmo, but allow mmo like trading and gear buying which is the issue with mats and boss mats also. I can tell you no mythic come easy and I play more D4 than i would actually want to, and use all seasonal bonus boss mats and get nothing.

So this needs to be looked at imo, it would feel like two different games imo.

The problem with adding crafting to GA items like you describe it then you take away the joy of finding a GA drop, This game already suffers this issue, i decked my alt in Uniques and even my main somewhat spamming the obol trader lol, that was kind of lame ngl, but it saved me time lol

you want to find items in the field in diablo, and sometimes at a vender, D1 the blacksmith would occasional have a unique item for sale for exmaple, and so you may make a choice to hunt some gold to buy it, or you may not.

D4 obols rain and you can spam the trader and get great loot lol

So this game need’s to sort that out first imo. Nothing is exciting about a GA drop if i would otherwise just craft one.

Tempering solved a sifting through affix issue, which was needed, and allows some build options, but the core of loot in a diablo imo, is choice and finding a drop that is powerful and a upgrade, becasue it’s rare and exciting, but should be exist withing reason, which makes me not enjoy the odds and the target farming for mythics for example. I mean my main could have seen atleast one mythic by now and i would have felt joy rather than what is the point and looking up at a huge mats mountain to even target farm them.

:man_shrugging: good thoughts, not knocking it, I just have a different view, but I do agree the pool needs more spice, and to feel more diablo and less, mmo-like.

I made it to paragon 270 and there are so many items I tried to farm for, yet never found. Or maybe I did find one but Bricked it.

All of this become simply unacceptable knowing that in one month, it will be Eternal, and therefore subject to Blizzard changing it into trash because of Lazy programming and their Eternal failure of finding balance.

3 months is not enough to build a character from scratch, find the perfect gear, and enjoy the character.

Watch Streamer define Meta > Copy streamer > Crush everything > arrive at boredom.

If, and only IF gear was more common, then so would experimentation. So maybe drop some GA Basic Skill pants (not a single pair from Season 6 in 270 paragon levels, not even 1 GA), maybe increase the GA Skills on Amulets (I did find a 1 GA Brilliance Ammy I very much enjoyed despite failing to temper it correctly).

So much potential to give players an option to try out different builds, but when there is such a low chance to even find something to experiment with, and even then 90% chance to brick it because the Temper rolls the same BS stat 5 times in a row… Why bother, back to the lazy meta, back to the boredom.

2 Likes

At 60 I don’t even look at the stats of non-GA items, they just get salvaged.

5 Likes

Even when they drop it is the worthless resist, or stupid Life rolls.

99.993% chance of disappointment

But when you get lucky, you get to temper it and watch the Exact same worthless Temper option pop up 5 times in a row, ranDUMB.

I want to explore and find items I can experiment with, not blindly salvage or chase a meta.

1 Like

I’ve wished for awhile now, with endgame being so stale, that they’d add like 500+ more powers. All sorts of wild stuff, make it virtually impossible to ever find anything “perfect”, but everything feels impactful and fun.

To heck with balance at this point, they’ve already thrown all that out the window. Give us cool stuff to try and look forward to.

Tempering/masterworking feels bad. Just give us a million powers to play with and call it a day.

Yeah, I really don’t understand why they just never allowed eternal realms to be an awesome free-for-all system with all of our powers in tact. Could have been great, maybe even worth playing occasionally.

This is the absolute most awful way to play the game. If we had more build diversity to shake up the meta this wouldn’t be nearly as troublesome.

Skill trees need some serious help. The current paragon system doesn’t help at all.

1 Like

I kind of disagree here, in the fact that, you can build in a way where a few manuals can be targted as such that i might not get Minmax, or optimal, but it will function. and perhaps some greater power manuals, have more risk, which isn’t too bad imo.

They way it is set up now too with say bleed aguments, well depending on what i have lets say i use rupture but not rend, rolling rend is the only way to brick it, in which case i can use rend, or save it for a rend build, or sell it/trash it and try again.

But as long as the build can benifit from the other two or three affix’s in some way, i can take less risk. and as i get more items to gamble with i can take bigger risk’s on the tempers i truly want, 99% of the time if i brick, it’s becasue i re-rolled to get a bigger roll, no need to do that, as hitting the affix is more important than minmaxing it early on.

or i have a change of heart about a affix and have two or 3 shots to go for a new temper, and so with the lower odds it may roll something very useless, So i never do this.
Go for the hardest to get first, before you MW or enchant, if you want to be and leave it when you get it, say it rolls the lowest value that is fine, use it until you can try again on a new item with maximum rolls chances.

This is my approach and i am not salty at all about tempering and had minimal ahh crap moments, most like i said came from tinkering and taking barbarian like risk’s. just jumping in raw and taking wild blows at it. :joy:

It’s a game play and have fun with it, it will change as its live development, I still miss and loved hunting unique, but guaranteed affix drops on rare items in D4 launch, but i had to accept change to enjoy D4, and life in general, is not worth the negative energy spent on these things.

Water the seeds that germinate, no sense looking at the others wishing they would become a mature plant, when they are telling you, they will never become one. :potted_plant:

2 Likes

If they removed them there would be no loot pool. Itemization is the real problem.

Your note is great about the skills. I think 2 GA and 3 GA items are not very effective. You already use a good 1 GA item, then you find another item with 2 GA (which is relatively difficult) and one with no critical chance, that will increase your critical chance by 4%, when we are at the end end this is almost zero or increase your critical damage pool from 2000 to 2100.

-We need another layer of items, perhaps items with 2 GA, 3 GA come with more sockets, plus a tempera. Or perhaps special items that have a bonus in the PIT since this is the only end game.

-Uber Manuals???With larger affix on the temper and can only be used once. There are more elements to pursue.

-Rarer potions with better attributes.Etc

Yes, yes, yes…

This is so freaking annoying.

1 Like

I agree. We don’t need to bring white, blue and yellow items back, they are progression items and I like that. I think it’s cool to go from blue to yellow and legendary. We can have several types of Legendaries:
-bestials with different affixes

  • vampires who receive the family of % life per hit, life per second, damage consuming life.

-powerful items with no cooldown on skills but with an item lifespan that cannot be fixed

-Demonic, Angelic, Supreme, etc. With more places for sockets, plus a special affix, you could insert a GA into these items, items that change the type of damage, ice, fire… We need more layers of items to modify builds or to improve.

3 Likes