Look the D2 way didn't work Blizz tried it S0 and 1 people massively hated it telemetry and data shows

PC General Discussion
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To the 5 of you on these forums, you know who you are - constantly vouching for more slow, sloggish, rare drops, souls like boss fight and mythic with 0.00005% drop rate

I got RECAP news for ya’ll… “BLIZZARD TRIED IT , AND IT DID NOT WORK”

Streamers hated, majority of the player base hated it. you can turn a blind eye and call those that are vocal the minority . But blizzard has data and telemetry to back it back.

Why do you think Blizzard is not sticking to that pre-S0, S0 and S1 type of game play and design philosophy ?

You really think is because the so called " loud vocal minority" on the forum ?

If we aren’t the majority, blizzard won’t be caving in to players that wants to play for power fantasy, blasting, alts , decent drop rate and fast leveling.

Haters can call it D3 style all you want - it is what drives engagement and play time. It is what makes this game fun for “majority” of the player base. And it drives sales too.

I don’t predict them doing another flip flop anymore in S10. I think it will continue down this path and Blizzard will make adjustment and elaborate on the game for the future.

Before you try something you don’t know if it will work . Once you tried it and data shows it does not work for the most part, you change back to what it was.

And that is fine…

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Sometimes when I read your posts I can’t tell if it’s trolling or if you really can’t understand anything.

If it’s trolling, it’s probably trolling with stupidity.

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D2 is still successful to this day lmao, d4 hasn’t tried the d2 method and it’s why the game is dying, catering to people that play a season here or there and never touch diablo again has never been the core audience. Soo many people quit they decided to dial the give away down lol.

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Like above, so probably a waste typing this.

Anyway it can be both, do i want that, not really but better than making it purely what arpg farming sims want.

Two solutions, one what they do now intentional or not, one season is more like d3 one is more like d2.

and for things like boss mechanics if it becomes such a big deal and they are in a corner about it. Rather than fold and make the game isolate me and other out of enjoying it and playing it less becasue of such changes.

Just create torment customization or game setup options. In one setup bosses are pinata with no brains like d3 and other we have D4 with actually mechanics as we see today.

This way, we could even get general combat effected and such, that some of us feel is too watered down when it comes to elites and there powers. and needed to dodge deathblows from monsters and such.

Or just make a great game, ignore the media for the most part and just build a new game that works and players will come old and new. A good game sells itself.

over tinkering with the sliders on the mixing board , just leads to a bad mix.

:person_shrugging:

Edit- the d4 when the 3 champions boss fight matters which order you kill them and had mechanics, the blood bishop and if we got caught and used our unstoppable up, we messed up and would likely die since we couldn’t potion spam like a cartoon.

Oh unless we have the unique pants, ofc.

Funny how jumping to conclusions to be first about a game, has only proven to be wrong as the systems we have now actually make sense as to why the foundation was like it was for 90% of it. If you pay attention to the details. It’s all there.

Example potion capacity, crying bloat affix, rune words, use potion… you see, It had purpose.
That is a small example of thinking and knowing like a developer and being a gamer or gamer on tv. You know things, you don’t know everything when you are not in the garage with the hood open.

That is the D4 i want the option to play, not the one that has been cut and nerfed for god knows what reasons. Just a simple game setup option screen could solve this.

Idk if i am not able to play leaderboards, there has to be a way, or let them learn to accept it, this game is different and not like previous ones. It really is sad to watch, i feel like social media has steered the ship in the wrong way. Keep fighting D4 to be different.

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Im sorry but D4 was never like D2.

No its why the game is oversimplified trash just like D3. It fails at the arpg genre in almost every single level. But hey, we now have another candy crush arcade game in the diablo IP.

Yep. Im just waiting till BL4 the will likely not touch D4 until xpac. Sure Ill log in for 20 hours each season to finish the “season journey”. Its likely to be less and less as the seasons contine. Its a shame blizzard doesnt know how to many arpgs anymore. I understand blizzard north doesnt exist anymore but its no excuse for the pile of :poop:.

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nope, not trolling…

But hey, keep hating while we are blasting

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Blasting for what? That’s our point lmao … I recommend expedition 33, now that’s a great game. Start weak then you become a god maybe d4 team should take some inspiration on what progression looks like, first 2 acts bosses are so hard you must learn to parry and then after building out your party you can pretty much 1 shot anything

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The D2 cult doesn’t exist in a reality with the rest of us. They are blinded by two decades of nostalgia about how a game made them feel when they were 13. They still say dumb things about successful D2 is right now, when 3/4 of the success is people running bots. Not to mention all the dupes and exploits.

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I dunno how easy/fast the game is kinda sucks. 50ish hours to max out 3 dif chars is dumb. Like I gave away 60bil in gold and any items that were good last night as I’m done for the season. That’s kinda what I expect from any diablo season if i play it, maybe 2 weeks and it’s over.

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Unfortunatly for those like want gameplay in our games, that is what some gamers want and consider it good. They spammed poe 2 with the same stuff. Sadly it seems they got a few pitchforks in. Only solution is from devs to make games and find a crowd, trouble is the corporations get bigger and they want guaranteed profits. Hence the live games shift and swing as they do.

They didn’t have to listen and i guess i am just thankful we have traces of the original D4 left.

It is sad though, and even worse the parasites that profit from it either way, by hating on a game or pitchforking change to look like heroes to there cult.

I can only pray gaming steps away from it and stops playing into it, or at least do it in a healthy way, more like how it started, people watched them becasue they are good at the game, not playing armchair dev and hating on what they are no longer good at for example.

Same with drops and all that nonsense, it does nothing good for what gaming used to be and should be, just another form of mtx for someone’s pockets and another less thing the gameplay could do to reward the player for playing! not watching someone play a video game 24/7 :upside_down_face: it’s wild to me, old man rant over :joy:

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A D2 way was never tried. Though I see they tried what they thought was D2ish. Their idea of D2 incorporation just equated to having very small drop rates on a few godly items no one would ever see (though this is a cool idea still, it just isn’t a viable carrot on a stick)

Meanwhile, in D2, on day one of a ladder, I can be farming the most lucrative farms the game offers, in hell. And in 3 days, I for sure will have near BiS for something like a Blizzard sorc.

Then begins the fun of farming super charged builds like Infinity based ones or Enigma. All of which I could get through farming and trading what I find in about two weeks or less.

They didn’t understand this – Rod has confirmed as much through several interviews. They didn’t understand that a game like Diablo 2 needs to have pindleskin farms too. Just run in, kill it in 5 seconds and reset. No prerequisite keys. One of the most lucrative farms in the game. They couldn’t accept something like that tho. They would assume that’s all that people would do even though in Diablo 2 you get a bored with that and go do something like a terror zone. Or trav. Or meph. Or a chaos run.

But cellars were a great primer for this to happen. Oh well.

The philosophy here is that you must be theme parked into the different content they have. You can’t have a Diablo 2 experience like that – at all.

Not to mention the problem of awful itemization here and the near impossibility of also incorporating smart loot.

But the main dynamic that makes Diablo 2 great, is that you’re always making progress towards your gg item goals. Sprinkled with shots of dopamine along the way when something really valuable drops. You’re always making progress because you’re always finding things that you can trade towards that progress. And SSF is always an option for those wanting the grind.

If that’s not part of your game, you don’t have a D2 experimence; remotely.

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End of the day, its the hamster wheel game design that is trash. People like the casual nature and it’s great for making people money.

As a gameplay, i do not enjoy it and i think it’s the cause of why people are not enjoying arpgs or even get into them as new players long term, There are better options. Actual games like god of war remake, means playing a game and being immersive. Not being a seasonal hamster.

I wish not just D4 but all arpgs that are not on phones, move on, and go back to not including this design, you wonder why loot is unrewarding, the hamster wheel is why. What is special about any of the loot, for me the new powers that change my build, cool then what, oh hamster wheel party, to find the same items to run bigger hamster wheels , you see the issue right, i hope so.

it’s not why i got into arpgs. So i disagree that that is what they are, before you try to tell me.

That is my personal opinion, that is all.

Edit- to make things worse, in the campaign or seasonal questing you find drops and if you get a unique it feels like item finding.

In Endgame its just giving you gear from everywhere so you get on Hamster wheel 1, no effort, just pop a track cache and you get the basics, now do this over and over and find that item over and over and run little hamster run for that minmaxed item.

S8 loot drops helped improve this feeling, and made the item find a actual thing in endgame, which i thing is what feels missing in a way, there is less item journey/find it just rains gear, becasue you have to when you have to run bigger hamster wheels.

If the game ends or have a cap, then you have a journey and got what you get and replay. The MWorking helps as this keeps the loot journey going, so i do enjoy that.

I think it’s tough to do both though and not a easy problem to solve. :thinking:

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In S0, the pull sizes were smaller and they were spread out a lot. You contended with a lot of stragglers which made gameplay tedious when there was not the diversity in place with itemization to get your CDs down outside of CDR stacking.

Blizzard addressed this by making group sizes way more dense and way closer together. In my opinion, the only problem was having the time between pulls being too great and enemies spread out.

Density went the opposite direction it should have which in turn dumbed down the game quite a bit. This is where devs have been struggling for a while with survivability as enemies were just as powerful but now in larger numbers more frequently. There is so much stuff going on all over the screen you have no idea what you are fighting and it makes attacks virtually impossible to dodge given you have 20+ enemies on the screen attacking you.

Bosses have never been designed appropriately because that would require actual mechanics. Blizzard had hung their hat up on arbitrary one-shot stuff that is barely telegraphed with poor netcode (Lilith waves hitting you well before the frames show it) and basically just having players run around in a circle with Max Movement Speed and Evade.

We do not want it to be Souls-like. If anything, this kind of junk is more Souls-like than it should be with real mechanics and skill checks.

Timers should never have been introduced for content. Having The Pit, Strongrooms, Kurast Undercity all be tied to a timer means you have no choice but to build a Meta Blaster with the most Multiplicative buckets that can be spammed. Who cares if it takes 30 minutes for a player to do the content? Let them.

D3 is the worst thing that happened to the franchise and where it took a nose dive. If it had not been for the console release, RoS, and really good timing with an empty playing field - it would have been doomed. The launch was awful.

Eternal should function more in the manner you decry as a rogue-like version. Higher power, more RNG and grind. Seasons do not need that because they have a life span.

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I just thought after completing the campaign that the end game was incredibly basic and boring after completing the capstones to get to WT4.

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Thats a lame lie that rod told some gaming journalist to justify why people were criticising the game at the time.

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No they didnt try the slow way.

D4 was slower at release, but it was still mostly a parody of what a slow tactical A-RPG would look like.
You still had one-shotting all around, most of the game was still a blaster-infested hell.

It was better than the game is today, sure, but no, not a good effort.

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LOL. What a bad joke. Play S9 with S0’s itemization and without any endgames or pits and see how successful it will be. The only things about D2 in D4 are what keep this game reasonable.

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First of all noone talked about this for months, why post about it now ?

NO, they didn’t

They released initially an unfinished game in that direction and then instead of finishing it decided to torpedo the entire thing and start experimentation again

If that wasn’t gonna work then at least they should’ve put it to the test for real:

  • Monster evolutions in WT4
  • Properly balanced for all builds loot with a few new generic affixes in WT4

They DID NOT finish that job and that DID NOT happen so your claim is not valid tbh

Not only that but he also “cheapshotted” players and people who he supposedly contacted for advice, and ofcourse not his fault

He gave his best but the players suddenly and miraculously “changed their mind” :cow:

There was even another instance when he threw the community under the bus so to speak, IDK what was it but he had an interview and blamed it on the consumers (pity can’t remember what it was)

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Not gonna lie - I miss the capstones, I loved smacking that little *itch Elias around that arena… wish they’d bring them back, it was fun testing your builds trying to get into T1 while at level 17 or so… now we have to wait until level 60 before we can try The Pit.

Now, for me, I’d bring the capstones back, let us try getting into T1 earlier than we should… keep The Pit and also the NMD’s for glyph leveling… ramp the hell out of the Helltides… let them cover 3 or 4 zones, double the chests within them, double or triple the monster density (increase their health if necessary) give us a fight and not a drive by on the way to the Blood Maiden… there should instances of lower bosses popping up in the Helltide. The Seething Abomination, Baby Beliel, Astaroth etc, all should have a chance of just be roaming around… same goes the Hellbourne, they should be roaming around in packs (4 or 5) and killing them should give much better rewards.

Cellars in general or within the Helltide… enter the cellar, hit a button and a timer starts (upto 2 or 3mins?) the longer you last the better the reward, survive the timer, get double rewards… straight on monsters coming at you from all directions, the longer you last, the harder the monsters.

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Season 0 was nothing like D2. Just because Blizzard advertised using those words before launch does not make it like D2. This game has never been like D2. It tried to be its own thing which is this MMO like always online ARPG with MacroTransactions.

Oh and it failed because it was rushed out the door, incomplete.

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