As I said, indeed the tempering system could be enhanced and indeed a better way to target the temper you want would be great.
You consider that the manuals are the issue, and it might be true. But there are other solutions to that issue too, I’m not a game Dev and I’m not an ARPG expert either, there might be solutions that we both didn’t thought of yet.
And just as I wrote earlier, the exact opposite of your argument is also true. A perfect item that gets perfect tempers can turn your average day into a grat one.
I also already mentionned the overpriced trading point, and if people stopped buying those 300B amulets that can brick anyway, maybe those same people wouldn’t rant as much on that tempering system.
The scroll is a band-aid as I explained earlier, people will always want more temper attempts, unless they are given a “full perfect temper” button which would defeat the bricking purpose anyway…
It is a system that can brick items, of course people will always rant about their unsuccessfull attempts. This is a looting game, if you bricked your item then it’s just time to loot some more. You don’t need perfect tempers everywhere to roll on everything this game has to currently offer anyway.
It’s all about doing with what you already have and about the hope of finding an upgrade that you would enjoy but never needed in the first place.
This game inherently wires everyone to go for the best stuff. Its what we do so when u ruin the best stuff it just a massive feel bad. Even ruining 2 GA stuff feels really bad. Feel bads ruin games. Feel goods do not do opposite and make u immediately spend in shop. You have to avoid feel bads at all costs. Tempering eventually will completely change. Its inevitable. WE have already started on this path with 13 extra rolls added so far on items with 3 GA with the scroll S6. When you make change after change to avoid the rules of your designed temper system its broken.
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“I remember when” -we- had to fight to get the paragon board reset scrolls. they were even a highlighted seasonal reward. now they are forgotten and I feel sad.
It doesn’t, as I mentioned above.
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Again, you are just projecting your own feelings thinking that everyone experiences the exact same thing. This is as far from a “responsible discussion” as you can go.
The “gamble” part I mentionned is a pretty tame one, you have great odds of getting the temper you want anyway, even if it might not be the biggest value possible.
Again, I see the potential bricking of items as an integral part of that system, it wouldn’t make any sense to remove it, you need to have a limit somewhere.
No one forces you to temper or even play this game here, or you have much bigger problems to solve than tempering 
You can steamroll everything this game has to offer without GAs. Finding non-GA items with the affixes you want isn’t that hard and it’s pretty much the whole point of this game anyway.
Finding items is the core of this game, you can find perfectly fine items multiple times easily, giving you that much more attempts to temper. Finding GAs is just a bonus, and we have already been given ways to find guaranteed GAs by the way…
If you can’t stomach the possibility to brick your items to get more powerful, then just don’t. You want more powerful items, then you’ll have to take the risk of having to find those multiple times… Or get lucky (one of the other main points of the game, mind you… ) and get great tempers.
You can rant all you want, that won’t change anything. I still haven’t seen anything you proposed to enhance the current system that didn’t involve scrapping it entirely or cheat your way into some infinite and free temper attempts ^^
You bricked a few items and now you are crying on the forums, this is all you’ve shown so far, what a “responsible discussion” this is!
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“gambling is a game of chance. some win, some lose.”
-some old guy
also
“know when to hold’em, know when to fold’em”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hx4gdlfamo
Except I allowed that others might feel differently when I said:
Thats the whole problem, there is absolutely NO REASON for that to be built into the game design. I have been playing RPGs since Dragon Warrior on NES. You know what the great ones don’t have? A system where you find good loot and then break it and have to find it again.
If this system is so great, why dont we add a chance for Mythics to break the first time you equip them? Then you can experience getting your Shako multiple times. Its literally the exact same thing except a few people try to pretend one of those ideas make sense.
Bingo! Fixes are just putting lipstick on a pig. Time to go back to the drawing board.
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You are making strawman arguments again, all over the place, and you’re making less and less sense…
You also make partial quotes so that they can fit your narrative. This is beyond ridiculous.
I stand corrected on one point, you CAN get even farther from a “responsible discussion” it seems
You still haven’t made any attempts at improving the system, what a surprise again!
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Most of the time a responsible discussion here means “agree with me”.
I consider tempering fine. A few adjusments might be nice, especially on some manuals for sure (which they are doing since the release of it. I think the only manual thats pretty off right now is one for the druids, which has like 6 options). The system itself is good tho.
if it was for me, there wouldnt even be a reset scroll. But meh, i guess im fine with it if it gives some people some comfort.
Indeed, discussion boards don’t seem like the best place to “discuss” anything nowadays ^^
I agree, some adjustements would be great, and there is room for improvements.
Better targeting of specific tempers comes to mind, be it through manuals or some other system.
But the current system has a purpose and fills it nicely. Some people just can’t get over the bricking part.
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Because mythics are complete items. Legendary drops are not. Tempering is the process of attempting to complete them. So when you get a drop you’re only getting the potential for a good item.
So anyway you said let’s have a productive talk. Throwing out nonsense comparisons isn’t productive so what would your alternative solution be? What if instead of totally bricking an item instead when you run out of rerolls it starts applying a success chance but a low one. Like a 5% chance of successfully apply a temper. That way the item is never truly bricked and if you’re determined enough you’ll eventually get what you want. It just might cost you a fortune.
Its not a nonsense comparison, the result is identical to what happens in the tempering system - an item you were excited about thats now garbage.
My alternative would be a system that doesnt break gear I already have. Probably involving actually dropping real loot in game instead of the “half items” you seem to be ok with.
There’s only about 4 (very vocal) people here that claim to like tempering and this is all they say. They dont go on to relay how it makes the game fun for them, they don’t tell fun stories about their triumphs at the Bricksmith, at best they explain how they manage to tolerate it. Usually some variation of “I just pretend the item isn’t done until its tempered”.
That fact alone speaks volumes about how good tempering really is.
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I did mention several times my “triumphs” at tempering, but you dismissed those…
Changed your mind again?
Also, you’re the one who made this “discussion”, and suddenly you are mad that other people see things differently?
Maybe you should try having a “responsible discussion” then…
I dont think you got the data to make such assumptions. After all the forums are a rather small group of the d4 players.
Its not like thousand people are saying “i hate tempering”.
Your whole argumentation relies on the “it feels bad if i lose an item” argument.
Well, sorry to say, but game mechanics arent all there to give you a dopamine rush all the time.
I prefer a big dopamine rush when i finally get the item that i wanted. If every temper attempt would lead to a success, youd hardly have any fun.
But hey, as an alternative, lets get rid of tempering all together and let items drop with 5 randomized affixes. That way you get your “Yeeeey!” moment when you kill a boss. Keep in mind tho, that way items will become infinitely more rare.
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So with that statement I have to ask did you play in season 1, 2 and 3? Because that’s what we had and it sucked. With tempering you actually have a good chance to get 5/5 affixes you want. The old system you could go a whole season and never see a 4/4 or even a 3/4.
So far you’ve not actually added anything productive to the discussion. It’s remove bricking and go back to the old system which is not going to happen.
So how about a show of good faith for your productive discussion and pit out a suggestion for how a change to the tempering system could work that could realistically happen. Otherwise we’re just participating in your fantasy world.
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god lol, especially amulets were crazy. you could literally go a whole season without getting a semi decent amulet. Now we get to have some influence.
I’m not mad. I’ve got numbers on my side based on every tempering post ever. Its just always frustrating when a few people enjoy pretending to like such an obviously terrible system just to annoy other people on the internet. There’s no other explanation for defending the indefensible and we could maybe get somewhere if they could get their laughs somewhere else. The vocal minority of 3 or 4 tempering trolls hanging around just cloud the issue.
For me it was always weapons that failed on my. Even with a barb having 4 weapons i never once had a 4/4 weapon. But for 2 seasons I have had 4 5/5 weapons for multiple builds. Shocking I could get that result from “the dumbest system ever”
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now that id like to see honestly. mind sharing? Please keep in mind that we should also respect the time frames, since there have been changes to the system.
or you know. people might like different things than you.
i can fully tolerate that you dont like tempering. would be great if you could tolerate that others do.
your post clearly shows you arent up for a responsible discussion. You want to vent. Which is fine i guess.
That was only true because the old sytem also had 2000 affixes with Damage on Tuesdays. Now that the affixes are pared down it would probably be better.
But at the end of the day, its not my job to come up solutions any more than it is to diagnose myself if I go to the doctor. I identify the problem. Bricking sucks. Its the devs job to take that feedback and make it not suck. Thats what they are supposedly trained to do.