Lead raid designer - design a raid difficulty scaled based off of 4 players and will not scale easier with less player is beyond terrible

PC General Discussion
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First off, I was never fan of this whole raid thing in the get go but was open to try it if the difficulty scaled off of how many players in the group, as it should…cuz logic?

But no, it doesn’t LOL… why ? No one is going to attempt the place with less than 4 people. Because it is just going to be that much more demanding chore to run the place with anything less than 4 people.

Imagine someone leaves in the middle, or 2 people leave… your group is pretty much disbanded because the difficulty level will spike through the roof.

If this guy is a lead raid designer, he should have thought about this. Every raid in WoW (a proper MMO by the way) scales with the number of players in the raid. Boss HP scales, and trash mob scales, because it only make sense that it does…

Now I know for certain I am staying the h@#$ away from this raid . the amount of frustration this will bring to anyone trying to pug this content will be hilariously sad.

Also…

Communication is not required ???

DId you even see the encounter, mechanic you showed off in the live stream ? 2 different parties split up doing different encounters this is like Lost Ark No.2 and you will fail horribly in any Lost Ark raid encounter without communication. We are talking heroic or mythic level raiding difficulty if you think WoW.

Good luck if you don’t use voice chat.

Gate keeping

This is going to cause gigantic amount of gatekeeping. If a pug party is having issue filling 4 people, they will only accept the best of the best player, full mythic uniques and meta builds… Imagine when every party out there are gatekeeping because they cannot fill 4 people. LOL

People love to gatekeep already, because everyone wants to have a easier time. If this raid proves to be extremely difficult, it will only further fuel the gatekeeping harder.

This content is gonna fail so hard…it will only be enjoyed the small % of people that plays with real life friend on a voice chat .

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I’m inclined to agree with the general feeling of this post mainly because I came to D4 as a respite from MMOs and raids. That said:

  1. I don’t expect a game to be designed around what i want. i play it until it is not fun for me and then do something else

  2. When they say tuned to 4 players you have to consider a lot of people run with horrible builds and don’t take the time to understand how to play their character effectively, so that is likely considered in the 4-player tuning.

  3. They said more than once that 2 decently geared players should be able to handle it.

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Yes, exactly… so, there will be a lot of gatekeeping and people crying on forums that they get kicked or rejected and cannot find a group LOL.

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probably. but I mean I know enough people with a clue from boss farming in previous seasons so I think if I actually want to do this thing I don’t expect it to be much of an issue. And… people who spend time crying on a forum about not being good enough to run content or get groups could spend time understanding their character or farming better gear instead :stuck_out_tongue:

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Im actually really excited for DC. Its nice to have a new game mode.

The fact it doesnt scale down doesnt really mean anything because most are able to carry 3 other people across stuff. It might just be more efficient playing with 4 instead of 2.

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They not only want forced grouping but forced 4 man grouping. Way more possibility of someone seeing the $30 cosmetic then.

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Scary part of citadel has nothing to do with difficulty or mmo boss or traps or puzzles or scaling or any of that. The scary part is that this is a test for more coop things to come if it works. They want to force players to buy VoH for runes and mythic crafts and they also want to force parties so ppl spend $$$ in cosmetic shop to show themselves off.

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funny thing is i don’t give 2 S@#@$ about the cosmetic that drop from that place…

Imagine wiping in DC for 3 hours while I am farming gears and getting my build online faster.

I rather play alt and gear up my alt than wiping in DC for 3 hours

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Yeah, I picked up on that as well. They did seem to clearly indicate that this just the beginning of expanding group play. I wish they would do an MMO already and let D4 stay an ARPG. I play different games for different experiences. Sad if that is lost.

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I think a Diablo MMO could be a massive success even more than D4 and D3.

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D4 is just an isometric WoW at this point.

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MMO genre is really dying I think. We are not in early 2000 anymore…

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they will try anything and everything to cjockblock your progress , and ultimately keep you playing for longer, thats the only thing they want

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I’m pretty sure someone will try with 2 people. The difficulty scales by Torment level. So Torment 1 with 2 players capable of Torment 2 will find it really easy. The annoying part will probably be the switches (or traps if compared to S3. Traps are not hard but annoying).

The annoying part is getting the cosmetics at Torment 4 with randoms. I think that’s where you will find the issues of folks dropping and the failure rate will be higher. But if you have a build that can easily cruise Torment 4, then you’d probably still be able to do Citadel at Torment 4. It won’t be difficult but just annoying again because you have to carry 3 noobs.

This will probably be the main issue. I remember helping a bunch of randoms in Infernal Hordes in S5. Man, they all die constantly. It was annoying.

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I mean not really. If its popular and has engagement why not? It could be fun. It will all be about engagement meteics at the end of the day.

Im bias tho because I do play wirh friends.

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I’ll be doing it with just two people. With a good build and good gear, I doubt it will be the problem you think it will be. The less people you have the more skill you will personally have to have, thats all.

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I’ll be doing this with two people. Instead of sitting around catastrophizing and celebrating my imagined downfall of the game, i’m gonna play the game and see how it goes.

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Citadel might end up like AoZ or Gauntlet. I agree, it depends on the engagement and metrics. I’m 50/50 with the Citadel. I’m probably more disappointed that the rewards are just cosmetics than being forced as a coop.

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Novel concept. Me likey!

To be clear when I say “sad if that is lost” I’m not predicting the downfall of the game, just the possibility of me losing interest in it. I’m well aware they will do what they think will suit most players best, hence if my interest does not align with what most players want, then my playtime will be the only thing falling

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Dont get me wrong I love citadel having a group option but it should also have a solo option but it does not and this is to force cosmetic sales. Group content is perfectly fine if it has a solo option as well. WE are not against group content. WE are for choice. We are for solo options as well.