So what exactly is the difference between itemization/reward in Diablo II and Diablo IV? Supposedly it accounts for the difference between the greatest game of all time and this one so it’s a curious topic.
For me, the two biggesr differences are Aspects and conditional modifiers in D4.
You can’t make a build, unless there is a strong aspect coded into D4. There is very little room for build creativity.
D4 is also riddled with conditional modifiers, deal more crit damage for 4 seconds after killing an elite. Just awful to read.
D2 just had straight forward modifiers that were strong enough to change the way a player approaches the game.
Find a storm shield? GG physical attacks cannot damage you. Find hot spurs? Fire damage only tickles you now. Finding one of the big mana items just breathes life into builds in the early game, lets you do so much more.
There wasn’t a lot of affix bloat in D2. There was no:
Damage to distant enemies
Damage to close enemies
Shrine buff duration <---- LMFAOOOOOO
Movement speed after killing an elite
Damage for X seconds after killing an elite
Movement X % running from chilled enemies
Damage reduction from close/distant enemies
Etc
D2 wasn’t the perfect game a lot of people say it was. Endgame was terrible doing boss runs for cham/zod runes all day led to people botting while doing irl things. Which then led to you not being able to even compete in ladders unless you also botted.
Itemization was intrinsically better though by all metrics.
D2 items
http s://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/
Paladin can use Sorcerer skill with this item
Dragonscale
Zakarum Shield Defense: 523-582 (varies)(Base Defense: 169-193)
Required Level: 80
Required Strength: 142
Durability: 65
Chance To Block: 52%
Smite Damage: 46 To 46
(Paladin Only)
+170-200% Enhanced Defense (varies)
Adds 211-371 Fire Damage
+15% To Fire Skill Damage
+10 To Hydra*
+5% To Maximum Fire Resist
+15-25 To Strength (varies)
Fire Absorb 10-20% (varies)
(Only Spawns In Patch 1.10 or later)
D4
item power determine the primary stat and some static affix, the 4 affix have the same range in the 100 IP.
all item have 4 affix that you have to choose ( + dmg / +DR / some utility if you want )
Uniques were actually unique in d2
Ethereal repair
Fools mod
Eth repair with fools mod is GG, as rare as uber uniques and super powerful.
LLD items
60+ Tri res boots with movement speed which is difficult to get
Runewords
+To all skills
+To Skills/auras not related to your class that you can still use on that class.
Using bows / shields / 2 handed weapons on any class.
Charms
dual leach for physical dmg builds.
Magic find.
I could come up with more but im too lazy. D4 has none of this. Along with no target farming and item power 725+ is the max, its a joke.
And D2 had Runes. Runewords were powerful, and if a rare rune dropped you immediately started looking what runewords you could make with it. It was exciting. Drops in D4 have almost NO chance to be an upgrade or even interesting.
D2 items affixes were more straightforward instead of all this conditional crap so it was a lot more flexible.
Also it had basetypes i knew an iron chest would give me more physical armour than a cloth chest but in D4 everything is homoginzed to be the same.
Literally a better end game than D4 though, i agree its a nostalgia glazed hindsight often and its not a perfect game. But damn the D4 games took none of the key lessons from D2 - esp around itemization.
D2s itemization is mediocre at best.
+All skills is way too powerful and universal. The biggest flaw in D2s itemization by far.
There arent enough interesting affixes to choose from either. What is there is good. Just too limited.
And overpowered Runewords basically destroyed the itemization late in the games lifecycle. Before runewords is was way better at least.
Sadly, mediocre itemization also means it is among the best itemizations in the genre. Most of them are just bad.
Grim Dawn still very much holds the itemization throne imo.
Outside of +all skills, D2 had fairly nice affixes however. Just too few of them. The balance never felt absurd, like in later Diablo games.
Probably its biggest strength was just that; restrained power. Again, that was before Runewords started the dark path that lead to D3 and D4 itemization.
Because of this, items generally werent needed for builds. They made them better, but they did not create the builds. This should be A-RPG design 101!
Uniques were more than their single unique affix. It could be the entire item. Something sadly missing from D4s very formulaic design of Uniques. One thing they share however; uniques are not necessarily better than other items, just different. As they should be.
Item types were less restricted. It is completely insane that all classes cant equip a shield. That ought to be considered a deadly sin in an RPG.
Maybe a Barb isn’t initially well-versed with a bow, but absolutely nothing should prevent them from picking one up and try to use it.
Rare items - they actually could be good (again, before late-LoD ruined it). Even Magic items could be good. Different types of items serving different purposes. Yet another A-RPG design 101. Also one that nearly all A-RPGs fail hard at.
D4 has far closer gear to what modern a/rpgs have just in a bit of dumbed down version… Mainly LE comes to mind as closest to current version of D4
D2 ?, it’s very unique and non-reproducible. And reason being it’s too “target-impacted” itemization (both on defense and offense) as it was done
I’ll name a few affixes that no other game has:
1 - Prevent monster heal (obviously meant to fight high-regen guys and/or healers)
2 - Slain monsters rest in peace (meant to fight tricky summoners)
3 - Ignores target defense (meant to fight high-armored mobs)
Here are a few defensive ones to counter
1 - Half freeze duration (or even Cannot be frozen)
2 - 25/50/75% reduced poison duration
3 - (+150/200/300 which is kinda significant) Defense against missiles (meaning missiles hit you much less often)
Those are kinds of affixes that only D2 had, and to be frank only D2 could get away with cause modern a/RPGs don’t have that kind of “on/off” switch when comes to itemization…
Modern games tend to prefer a more “gradual” approach overall but sure, I suggested/added a few examples of the kind (mainly for boots in late game in things like: After evade guarantee Overpower, or - Evade removes impairments and debuffs for ex. )
TLDR - D2 itemization had a section of several important aspects in it that were on/off, on/half/off, or 1/0.75/0.5/0.25/0 switch and disregarded “graduality” that modern games seem to cherish a lot more. And to be frank, some affixes indeed would benefit from that kind of logic for D4 as well (such as 33/50/66% reduced stun or freeze duration, as opposed to having a 10% less CC which would require like stacking on 2 spots to be even usable)
The question is why are you comparing D2 with D4. Why not with D3? You must hate D3 so much.
To me, D4 > D3 > D2.
I get it, you need resistances on D2… to be able to stand on fire while fighting Bosses. On D3, we stopped standing on Fire. Of course on D4, we would laugh at you when you stand on Fire.
D3 introduced the Sets. You get powers when you complete a Set which is non-existent on D2… as the D2 relied much on the Runeword gear.
Regarding the D3’s Set, you would need 2 slots set to gain 1 Power, or need 4 slots set to gain 2 Powers and 6 slots set to gain 3 powers. One disadvantage is that if you are missing a piece, you would be missing Power/s. And another disadvantage is you cant do anything if you dont like any of Power of the Set. On D4, on the other hand, each slot has Power. And on Season 1, your rings and Amulet have Aspect Power plus Malignant Hear Power. And if you dont like Aspect Power of the slot, just replace it with what you like.
So now with itemizations:
D2 = Runeword Gear + Unique
D3 = Class Set + Class Specific Legendaries / Non-Class Specific Legendaries or Set + Kanai Cube
D4 = Aspect Power on each Slot / Class Specific Unique / non-Class Specific Unique (Temerity, Razorplate, Penitent Greaves) / Seasonal Unique (Lidless Wall for Necromancer) + Seasonal Power (Malignant Heart)… and there would be more in the future.
Sorry if I missed something. But to me IMO, D4 > D3 > D2 on itemizations.
The problem is in the itemization design theory
In d2 the items buffed your build, while there were a few that allowed you to make crazy weird builds.
In d4 most builds are restricted by needing items, like tempest storm.
It isn’t just the +/- flat values or % dmg
It is the overall itemization design planning that makes the builds item dependant and restrictive vs making your character and having the items power it up.
Yeah you would see 99% of sorcs with shaco, viper, occy etc.
But that is because they were BIS, not because you needed a item to make your skills or the bonuses on the rest of the items useful.
Rares could be better than uniques, and nieche magic items were godly.
It’s pretty easy to figure out, or so it seems like it should be.
The Oculus and Harlequin Crest in D4 were made to be reminiscent of D2 itemization, mixed with the D4 damage buckets.
+Skills, namely. Faster Cast Rate was huge too. Now imagine 50-100 of those types of unique items in the game, instead of 2-5. Now imagine that they could actually drop in your lifetime or you could trade for them.
You play a summon necro? You get a +Skills item? You have more skeletons instantly. There were tangible effects from these items and you felt MUCH more powerful upon equipping them. Not sheet damage go up. Not “number over head go up”.
You were NOTICEABLY more powerful. I urge you to go try it out for 2-3 weeks, you’ll see the difference immediately, but you’ll also be incredibly frustrated because it seems so incredibly easy to replicate, yet over 20 years and 2 sequels they can’t manage to figure it out.
Best example between D2 & D4 for me is not at end game, but at the beginning. Gems, for example.
In D2, at level 5, the first gem chips dropped. Stick one in a weapon and fun things happened. Depending on the gem, your weapon became fiery, dripped poison or got frosty. The damage from this was noticeable, but didn’t make you uber.
Even better was the effects this gave you. My favorite was the sapphires that caused enemies to shatter into tiny pieces sometimes. Of course, as the game moved on, you needed better weapons and better gems. It was fun.
In D4, gems in weapons mostly grant a percentage chance to a percentage based effect. There is no visual change to the weapon, and more importantly, you can’t tell if the gem is even working. Yawn. It is a system only an accountant would love.
That is the difference between D2 & D4 itemization.
In D2, Uniques are almost impossible to get by yourself. It became possible becoz of Trading.
Trading was further improved on D3 when it was released with Real Money Auction House. But later on, it got abolished becoz players tend to spend more time on RMAH than playing the game. Blizz also realized the game would be better if the player would loot the BiS item… not bought/not from trade. So when they abolished RMAH, they made legendary items/unique’s easier to get. You would be able to loot hard-to-get items… just grind and grind and it would eventually drop… unlike on D2, you could grind and grind, and it would never drop.
D4 inherited the softer RNG of Legendary items/unique of D3. Tempest Roar? Ring of Mendeln? It would drop eventually. I will bet you, you would have at least one drop by level 85. The thing is in my opinion, D2 players on D4 has a mentality that it would never drop becoz of their experience on D2. And without trading, they feel they’re doomed of never ever getting it. They are wrong. I played D3 after RMAH, it would really drop.
There was a very rare item on one season that I gave up grinding for it becoz of my impatience. I never got it on that season. But the next season, I was able to play more hours triple than that last season, the very rare item I didnt get from previous season dropped. And it dropped again on the next season after my hard grinds. It means, you just need patience and it would eventually drop.
On D4, the Ring of Mendeln is the major item for a Summoner build. I was a Summoner from the start of Season from level 1. Beaten Capstone Elias to get early access on Ancestral gear seeking for that ring at level 55. Reached level 60, got Wrathful Malignant Hearts, no ring. Reached level 70, got Barber Malignant Hearts, no ring of Mendeln. Reached level 80, got all Necromancer uniques and still remained a Summoner and still no Ring of Mendeln. Even got Lidless Wall Shield Unique another rare Unique opposite of Summoner as it needs minions to be sacrificed. Played the Lidless Wall shield build becoz there’s no ring of mendeln. When I was starting to fall in love with the Lidless Wall shield build, then suddenly, the Ring of Mendeln finally dropped… at level 85. And a day after, another Ring of Mendeln dropped. I told you… It would eventually drop.
The only thing that would never drop are the Shako-kind which inherited the RNG of D2. ROFL. 0.000000000001% drop rate? Nope, I would never grind for it. Those who killed Uber Lilith and NM100, they never have those extremely rare Unique.
I like the older games items in those games, but would it suite what they are aiming for in D4, No.
While i wouldn’t mind a few specials in the pool, The customization in D4 is freeing and fun to me.
Even that person that laughed at shrine buffs, i actually wouldn’t mind making a shrine buff build one day, this means unlike D3 i dont have my hand held or guided into what to play, and ofc i would play the new set the first time, instead i can think about D4’s stats and a fun combination i haven’t tried.
People are too quick to judge D4 , the bigger picture is where things make sense.
The crafting side of it though could use improving, it becomes too automatic and doesn’t offer much.
a guide or idea of what can roll on what would be welcome, and also some variety in loot color and drop sounds and effects for golds, could be better.
That is better done in D1/D2 even D3 with the pentagram primal’s for example.
other than that, i have no issues with loot so far, item power can be annoying and doesn’t make a lot of sense sometimes, still figuring that one out, 75 plus is a odd spot for loot imo.
like a dry spell and loot power and everything feels messy compared to earl on, good time to sell and dismantle though for me.
Weel in short in D4 theres no itemisation
Beyond some affixes being relatively stupid in Diablo IV I’m struggling to see much of a pattern… perhaps D4 items are more boring?
That last sentence I have noticed. Questionable design philosophy.
Yet POE has some massively unique uniques that completely allow entire transformations of builds. There is little reason d4 could not have followed D2 in that regard. D4 loot is uninspired and absurdly shallow with massive amounts of rng bloat via garbage useless affixes, to guess what, keep people playing a dreadfully repetitive half finished game.
Worse, a lot of dmg calculations were not even understood by the d4 development team, i see you overpower, which made entire builds junk.
Think my favorite part about d4 is finding a unique weapon early that you need for your build (say the 2h necro scythe) and immediately knowing that regardless of how luckyy/unlucky you were with the rolls, you will have to find it again as you will quickly out lvl it due to its dmg range.
The big difference is what most people fail to see… Diablo2 items had uses at almost every item level because of crafting. For example… In D4 you find crappy items and you salvage to reroll (99.9% of everything is salvaged) where in diablo 2 you FOUND the materials and also FOUND the base armor or weapon to roll gear. This is important because it makes items you’d otherwise salvage like a 4 open socket ethereal armor or a RARE CIRCLET – Suddenly all of the “lower Tier” items have value and its not auto salvaged like everything else.
D2 is/was so much better because WHITE/GREY/BLUE/YELLOW/SET/UNIQUES — ALL HAD Some unique way of being valuable. Item lvl didnt matter because the game wasnt hyper focused on stupid stats like “vulnerable.” Low Level unique items Like SOJs had value and Magic Javelins with +4 to battle orders had value. You wont ever see that in D4. Everything is auto-Trashed into mats. The materials should be FOUND. The Rune/GEM/socet/Cube system is 20 years old and 10000x More creative.
You’d think they would have learned from D3 - the old saying if it aint broke dont fix it. But they managed to f*** it up again. Its sad.