The skill turned out so-so, its main use is the generation of essence. Abhorrent Iron Maiden is situationally useful. Horrid Iron Maiden will not be used by anyone. If someone is using it now, it’s only because they haven’t read the description of the skill and don’t understand how negligible the damage this skill causes. Even if it were strengthened 20 times, the damage would still be ridiculous, and the cost of getting hit is too high.
I suggest remaking Horrid Iron Maiden: Enemies afflicted with Iron Maiden take X[x] more thorns damage.
The skill will become more thematic
Let’s get rid of the useless improvement and give more life to a niche build
Anyway, we already have thorns in the skill tree and in the book of the dead - so let’s at least develop this area a little.
Thorns in general is a joke because it is only affected by %damage from int, vulnerable, and scales at only 30-84% its value on the necromancer which is already abysmally low. Couple all of this with the fact that a single multiplier barb gets is 300% more than 14 minions could ever hope to achieve and it’s laughable. Not to mention Needleflare and Jagged Spikes does not work with minion damage.
Iron Maiden with max curse upgrades actually does more damage, can crit, is affected by 100% multipliers, etc, and is right now able to hit numbers much higher than thorns values. So incorporating it into thorns is a net nerf for the class and makes it even more useless.
Please prove your words that Iron Maiden causes damage.
Here is my video www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqticgnm_Zw of killing a T100 boss using only thorns. If Iron Maiden can come even one hundredth of this close…
hmm i’m sorry but in this video its seems like you heavily rely on shadow damage & shadow blight. you have turned of damage numbers and placed the boss up in a corner it is hard to actually see if its thorns dealing damage or every thing else going on?
sorry i do not mean to be negative, it was just hard to see if thorns actually is on the build.
EDIT: after closer inspection i see that the bosses health spikes every time it hits…
also i agree with you suggestion, Iron maiden should be changed. either like you suggest to thorns, i love it. How it was not like that from the start i do not understand.
playing with damage numbers is the lot of Korean grinders. I want a clean screen. You can simply visually compare the life of the boss and the moment when he thorns. There I have recorded several more videos about spikes and you can watch them and understand that my damage is not there at all. Shadow damage is only needed to activate Aspect and Flesh Eater
Ah yes the classic black river corpse explosion thorns build. Where you stagger / stun a monster for 90% of the fight then it “dies” to thorns after you already have 50 stacking pools of BCE under it. Turn on damage numbers and let your minion thorns per hit show along with let them solo it and we can talk.
You’re just throwing poop and not making an argument. In the first video you can see that I have a wand in my hand, not a scythe. In the second video I show the equipment and from the gameplay you can see that I don’t do anything myself, I don’t have CE on the panel in the bloody mist, I rarely use it.
Once again you have damage numbers turned off. It took you 1:15 minutes to kill an elite pack and because we can’t see damage numbers I am assuming 90% of the damage was from minion attacks. While minions can clear t100 you are choosing the least viable option.
I have spent a great deal of time on d4planner and the max thorns damage a minion can reach is 27k with perfect minions inherit thorns rolls with defender and bone golem. Even in the best case scenario possible thorns will never do more damage than simply running reaper upgrade 1, which does aoe and can trigger multiple times every second.
If you are going to make claims about the build you need to be transparent in your presentation and state numbers with it. I am happy you enjoy the build but claiming it is good or viable just tells the devs to not touch it for another season. Which is the worst situation imaginable.
Even if needleflare aspect and jagged spikes was working on minions thorns scales at 30-84% of the necromancers total, can only be buffed by intelligence and vulnerable. And a 2.2x multiplier on 27k is only 59,400 damage. Which is alright if Crowd Control didn’t stop it from triggering or minion displacement. Thorns in general needs a complete rework and overhaul in its functionality or a gross increase in damage to keep up with F tier builds.
Monsters die not because they see high damage numbers, but because they run out of HP. You see the level of the monsters, you see the speed at which they die.
The statue does not hit back - the spikes do not work on it. This is an off-season playthrough, I have a fully equipped summoner and the spike build plays better in a number of situations.
Instead of sitting with a monocle in d4planner, take it and play with the thorns build It scales with minion damage (both additive and multiplicative). This is not my invention, this style of game is the script of the developers.
You probably learned about how thorns are scaled from forums and dubious knowledge bases. I also came across them when I was doing a build. Less theorycraft, more games
And in general we are moving away from the topic. We’re talking about the Iron Maiden.
I showed you that thorns cause damage. In the first video you can see that the speed of killing the boss is superior to any minion build (the contribution from my CE can be 3-5%). I claim that the thorns are mastabilized by minions (I verified this experimentally and the statement to the contrary is false). The developers gave us thorns in the skill tree and in the book of the dead. I see potential in this and want to develop it.
You said that the Iron Maiden with the first rune can be useful - please proof it in the studio. I don’t believe that there can be a playstyle in which a necromancer can confidently kill T100 mobs with an iron maiden against himself (he will burst after a couple of hits from Elite)
I think this becomes viable with a +skills build. IE you don’t stack thorns, rather you stack + skills and use the thorns only from iron madian… The quesiton is, how any +skill levels to curses is possible? best I can think of is 12/5 so +7 from gear.
I just checked with +15 Iron Maiden. Level 100 mobs dealt ~7k damage to themselves. Congratulations, now the skeleton warrior is not the most useless skill.
its clearly thorns, boss deletes itself with its own breath. thorns is actually pretty strong and benefits from all damage multipliers to minions, except obviously attack speed.
If thorns benefited from additive and multiplicative numbers it would be hitting for the millions not tens of thousands. Just to basic math this real quick.
27,000 x 1.8 = 48,600 “Aspect of reanimation”
48,600 x 1.45 = 70,470 “Cult Leader”
70,470 x 2 = 140,940 “Hulking Monstrosity”
140,940 x 4.95 = 697,653 “Golem Damage from Board”
697,653 x 1.2 = 837,183.6 “Vulnerable”
837,183.6 x 2 = 1,674,367.2 “1k intelligence”
1,674,367.2 x 1.1 = 1,841,803.92 “Revenge glyph”
This isn’t even all of it and its out of proper order I know but you can see there is simply no way any of those additive or multiplicative modifiers are working on thorns. You would be straight up walking barb wire if it did.
I have not spent much time on this at all, however I tested Aspect of reanimation a few weeks ago and it works without a shadow of doubt.
I was talking about aspects rather then paragon boards or glyphs. I cannot comment relating to those.
hahaha Iron maiden might be crap
I wonder if it can be amplified by anything? glyphs/paragon/aspects etc but if you compare that to the base damage of a high level CE spell, its absolutely nothing. So i think its highly unlikely to become viable without some major buffs. But again, i am extremely ignorant on this spell, as I only ever dabbled with it while leveling on season 0.
Your calculations are missing some things, and you won’t have the 80% reanimation aspect because you will use the shield for +~3k flat spikes and 10.5% inheritance by minions, +the final value should be reduced by 20% because you will have only 80% inheritance of thorns from gloves and rings (90% with a shield) + in reality it is very difficult to maintain a vulnerable state, 1k int is a difficult result to achieve with a shield, maybe you multiplied something else somewhere not quite correctly(golem damage from the board, as far as I understand, is additive, not multiplicative (except for the key node)), but in general - everything is exactly like that.
We also get benefits from glyphs - I checked. This is why in the spike build I don’t use the Mage glyph, but I use the Golem and Warrior glyphs
Heal for 7% of your Maximum Life when an enemy dies while afflicted with [Iron Maiden]
Blood Surge
Heals you for 2.5% of your Maximum Life when drawing blood from enemies. If 4 or more enemies are drawn from, then Heal for an additional 2.5% of your Maximum Life.
Aspect of Untimely Death
Each percent of your Maximum Life you Heal beyond 100% grants you 0.5 bonus damage on your next Overpowering attack, up to a [20.0-60.0]% bonus.
Temerity
Effects that Heal you beyond 100% Life grant you a [Barrier] up to [40 - 80%] of your Maximum Life that lasts for 8 seconds.
