Blizzard has been pushing for increased utilization of this build by buffing the damage up in s3. They buffed the build some more in S4 but many of you say the devs still dont understand the fundamental flaws, which will always make the build unviable.
Can you share the problems with Incinerate and how would you fix them so that we can help the DeVs implement something that actually works?
I attempted to use it a few times in S3 in NMDs and my personal (very limited) experience is described below. I’d prefer someone with more experience and knowledge of the mechanics provide input.
slow rev up time with damage; rev up mechanics are undesirable and make for very slow play style and also impact survivability; good offense = good defense. Fix: make revup times quicker across skills, glyphs, aspects that are related to incinerate
lack of mobility: im expected to just stand there and 'get punched in the face' (as some describe it) while shooting my flamethrower; sorc is not a tank. Fix: see 6 below.
i cant do anything about enemies hitting me from behind while also hitting enemies in the front as well as avoiding explody things, short of using FS and / or TPing away. TP'ing away also causes issue 5 below. Fix: see 6 below
As a result of lack of mobility, this build will never be used in speed runs or PVP. Fix: see 6
When i teleport or evade or use any other skill, i need to rev up my damage again. Can we make it so that we dont have to re-rev up after a different skill usage ? Ie: if i use flamethrower again within 5 seconds of last use, i restart with same damage level?
Unless Im missing something, you cannot walk and flame-throw at the same time. Most other builds can do damage and move at the same time (ie: blizzard can cast and walk around; firewall can cast and walk around). So you'll never be able to do any speed runs with Incinerate. How to fix: enable moving while flamethrowing.
If you do 6 above, it will be very difficult to walk and flame throw at the same time because your moving with one hand (ie: your keyboard) and pointing your flame thrower with the other hand at the enemy. If I need to use my fireshield (or any other skill), I need to lift my left hand up, find the button for that skill, and then hit said fireshield skill (or be extremely adept with my left hand fingers). So ideally we can toggle an 'incinerate auto target' to avoid overcomplicated keyboard mechanics. Probaby need to rethink this solution as I imagine we don't want the computer to choose which enemy to hit in all scenarios. Regardless, 7 is not a deal breaker as i can always move around my skill buttons to be closer to my navigation buttons
no ability to (re)trigger vulnerability without stopping the flamethrower. This is unless i have Accursed or Frozen Orb as enchant. Fix: allow me to cast lightning spear and iceblades without interrupting incinerate.
considering the buffs in s3 and S4, still extremely low damage compared to S2 that had damage like Flowing Veins. And even that build was weak.
Don't think this suggestion is going to have a lot of buy-in and in all transparency, I'm selfishly suggesting this because I love Occy: move flamescar to Focus so that I can still use Occy and obtain the benefits of mobility.
Here are some other threads on this topic:
Here was a specific suggestion i found in previous threads. I believe it echos my comment on 'revving up mechanics' being bad for game play + lack of paragon board synergies / viable glyphs
Here is a comment from our Incinerate expert, @karmig, and putting it here because some problems with Incinerate are due to a lack of understanding of how the build works. However, he has mentioned in recent threads that Incinerate still is terrible.
Video of an incinerate build that didnt get much traction but is also no longer viable since we cant use the same OP vampyric powers like Flowing Veins (60% multiplicative damage for fire dot)
This one basically was created as a result of this post. Not sure why they didn't keep it in this thread.
This one came from the PTR forum
Thanks in advance to help summarize previous identified problems and solutions.
One thing they should do is turn Incinerate enhancement into an Hydra that last 8 sec. I dont like channeling the ability. Also if it stay the way it is. I really hope the snake benefit from all Power my regular incinarate gets.
Also with S4 change Mastery skills are also considered Core skill. Meanwhile you only get a Rune working for Mastery spells. So as long as Incinerate doesnt benefit from it its dmg will always be quite weak
What would also be cool is if either the hydra or serpent could move instead of just staying in one static place. Why do you prefer a hydra over the serpent? We already have a hydra enchantment. I kinda like the serpent because it can do splash damage.
I’d prefer a hydra cause the enhancement would turn a Core skill into a conjuration. And it would apply the same bonus as the Hydra. Max 2. But you could have 1 the do overtime dmg. While the regular Hydra does direct dmg with posibility of burning added. It give player choices of their Hydra. A little bit of D3 with the runes
I’ve legit never even see what the Incinerate enchantment looks like, it’s so bad. Though I haven’t seen it myself I’ve heard people talk about how most of the time it would just spawn in a corner and breathe fire on the wall for the entire duration.
I think the only real fix for Incinerate, aside from fixing all the broken glyphs and mechanics associated with Burning Damage, is to allow moving while channeling it. I can’t think of any reason not to and have never seen any of the devs articulate why not being able to cast/channel on the move is the status quo. Even most MMOs (with the notable exception of WoW) no longer have those restrictions and almost no other A-RPGs. It’s just an outdated concept, if it ever made sense to begin with.
Its a useless snake face who casst incinerate in a direction. Doesnt rotate to chase ennemi or anything. At least not that I have seen.
Well if the enhancement would turn an Hydra that cast incinerate for you for 8sec it would quite fix a big issue. Sinse you wouldnt need to cast it yourself and it would be subject to the same restriction as an actual Hydra from Conjuration tree. Also I havent tried but if the enhancement would be affected by Flamescar, The new Flametrower Aspect, aspect of conflagration. It would help quite alot.
Good callout. If a person in real life can run with a flamethrower and attack at the same time, why cant we do this in a game? Not only that but moving and conjuring would enhance enjoyability of the game and make it more multidimensional: Right now Incinerate is runing, stopping, pointing and shooting. So very clunky. Skill level of a player could in the future could be based in how well they run / navigate / dodge while conjuring incinerate in parallel. Even the videos would be more fun to watch with this updated mechanic. And can you imagine PVP videos of incinerate while moving?
This also applies to BL. Right now to conjure my balls to keep them floating, i believe i have to stop running / walking and start casting. When my balls drop in coun5, i have to repeat this cycle. So a very clunky design.
I feel like the mobility problem is intended design. One passive ability “soulfire” needs the character to stand still.
One suggestion change is to get one buff lasting for several seconds when it reaches the maximum damage. And the buff let the skill damage not start over. The character can move or cast other skills during the window.
It recalls me that witch doctor has the similar problem when casting firebat. Rare players use that build.
Another suggestion is also from D3 sor, there is one passive to enhance defence when the character stands still.
If it allows channeling incinerate while moving, it turns the skill into whirlwind in play style.
For me the major problem is that Incinerate apply a burning only when incinerate deal damage to the enemy but its a burning that go away way to fast, or make it that incinerate enchantement instead is that : Enemy damaged by incinerate are burning for X seconds.
Quite dissapointed about the new Aspect. They are really nice but none of them affect the serpent from enhancement. Also our serpent doesnt seem to be affected by Enhanced Incinarate who is supposed to burn around us for 50%. Also not affected by the 30% incrase Radius Affix either
Wouldnt say underwhelming the dmg are quite good. I even forget to use FW sometimes. You see with no real build my Sorc does 360k/sec from it in a huge cone. Im missing flamescar and many other thing but it kinda burn fast
I dont have them on PTR I was talking about the aspects. Im kinda dissapointed the serpent isnt affect by it. The Flametrower aspect is quite OP on an amulet tough. Split incinerate into 3 and each does 140% dmg. With the new added explosion from previous Aspect dont remember the name.
But with the new Heal per sec or heal per kill these 2 Unique are quite strong
Wll I kinda cancel FW altogheter for a Incinarate + Fireball enhancement. With the explosion on aspect + explosion from enhancement the clear is really quick.
Would be nicer if the rune that boost mastery would also boost Core ability otherwise I need to replace by something else
He complains about the triple beam lowering the damage, but… Has he tried hitting something point blank in the face with all three beams at the same time? Not on PTR so I have no way to test that but it seems like 3x 80% > 1x 100% by a mile.
Now “point blank” means whatever you’re hitting can punch back, but it seems like the whole gist of the build is building in some ability to face tank precisely so you can do that and get away with it. Aspect of the Protector and Flame Shield seem like no brainers here along with the Frost Nova dodge mechanic and probably Ice Armor too. Teleport to the bosses face and start channeling, bubble pops the first time it hits you, wait that out then Frost Nova or Ice Armor, if it gets hairy Flame Shield and run away until bubble is almost back, rinse and repeat.
It wastes an aspect slots but if you put the split beam on a two hander it jumps damage to 140%
Incinerate looks to be getting better but I dunno how it’s going to do on nightmare dungeons.
I’ve not tested incinerate on a 100 build on the PTR but at least it’s fun as hell to level with now. I’m 41 and having a blast. I hope its viable end game, though I still have my concerns.
It actually does if you stand near it, it will attack a new target when the one it is targeting has died. But ya the AI to the incinerate enchant is just Bad and needs an overhaul.
It either needs improve targeting AI or multiple heads to attack all directions or just change to just make incinerate ramp faster or have no ramping time and proc chances of explosion’s or something similar to the incinerate unique wand and projectiles.
my example: Incinerate now has added Projectiles and shoots Fire bolts every sec.
Pargon board enchantment board buffs it to .75. Just a thought.
iNCINERATE has too many penalties for the little damage output,
During season 2 any incinerate Build would fail the AOZ either due to time or being killed by blood seekers.
SLOW BUILD UP: it takes 2 seconds to 3 to do full damage, in order to avoid a hit, you have to move and start again.
NO CRITICAL: incinerate as a DOT skill doe snot crit. Yopu need Flamescar, even having flamescar does not compensate for this penalty
LOW DAMAGE OUTPUT: even at full build, INCINERATE does not enough damage compared to the rest of all skills, it does not worth it, despite all penalties is the weakest skill. the low output damage is not enough, even having 4 ranks on gloves, 7 ranks with Flamescar and 4 more ranks with Shako, the damage is worthless. Boss fights last an eternity, becoming frustrating and in the end most of the time you end up dying.
in conclusion incinerate does not worth the time it takes and the sacrifice and bad time playing.
the only way to fix the issue is to improve the paragon board regarding burning instinnt and searing heat, their distribution paragon points is ridiculous and sinergies don’t work.
this skill shall be buffet at least 400% damage, that is the only way it may be worth.
the low damage is ridiculous and discouraging, too many penalties
I’m curious, did you read the PTR patch notes? While I wouldn’t say for sure that they’ve hit the 400% damage increase you’ve suggested, the new Aspect that triples the beam along with all the other buffs they’ve piled onto it since S2 probably gets you close to that mark. At the very least I would expect it to be much better against bosses now.
I think the consensus is generally that it still probably isn’t enough to make the skill shine (which may simply be impossible without a fundamental rework of the whole thing), but I imagine the damage now is substantial. The forced immobility while channeling remains the skill’s Achilles heel; my opinion is that once mobs start hitting hard enough to one shot a player, Incinerate will be fairly ineffective, but up until that point it’s probably going to be alright, possibly even good.