I think the skills tree could be improved a lot, instead of putting all the complexity into the paragon boards. What about adding more branches and more leafs to the skill tree?
Instead of having just 2 choice per skill, we could have 5. Instead of having a linear tree to the passive node, we could have a fork tree.
Yep, it will looks a bit like PoE tree, but it will add more builds possibilities.
Also we need more points for the skill tree, it’s still not enough, even with the additional renown points.
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I have ALWAYS hated the paragon stuff.
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i like the idea, tho it can become too complex easily, but a few more choices on some skills will def be cool <3
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I think the skill trees are fine for the most part. What really needs some work is the itemization. It’s so stale, everything is just a stat increase. No interesting affixes at all.
There’s no
- % chance to make enemies vulnerable on hit
- % chance to stun enemies on hit
- Gain % max life
- Gain X life on hit
- Enemies have a % chance to explode on death
etc.
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really? i kinda like the paragon boards in d4, compared to the paragon system in d3 ^^ tastes differ. why dont you like on the p boards?
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I like the boards more than D3’s system. I just don’t like paragons at all. It’s just tedious unnecessary content to me that wouldn’t be needed if classes and skills were balanced right.
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fair to say, d4 will have a good time to go and figure some things out with the community. some people here think im a fanboy, but i just like the base game so far and hope some stuff gets better.
(e.g. i wont touch wow ever again after bfa and shadowlands 
)
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I stopped with WoW at cataclysm.
Vanilla, TBC, WotLK we’re the pinnacle of WoW to me.
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If you’ve played through BFA and shadowlands, you should understand why people have little faith in Blizzard to make things better. Sure, they might figure things out with the community, but when? if it’s 3-6 years down the line, that’s unacceptable for most people.
yet it was our decision to buy the game. not gonna lie, im a d4 fanboi. blizzard is in an ugly position. they messed up a lot that i can agree with for sure. They didnt mess up on d4 yet tho. i think some of whats happening here is built up anger.
It undoubtably is. The problem for me and a lot of other people raging though, is that Blizzard isn’t doing anything to prove us wrong. Sure, it’s only been 2 months, but we expect more than +1-2 resource generation and numbers changes to useless uniques.
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I agree, i dislike the linear path design,
Its a long way better from 2019 build.
Even Guild wars 2 redesigned the skill/talents system.
Never seen so much panic in a game that is live so soon. lol.
If it’s bad they will fix it, if we are dumb we learn it better, if it can be re-worked into something better, they will do it.
thats how i see it.
- this is a glyph
- this is already an affix
- this is on gems
- this is already an affix
- there are several class abilities that do this or something like it
How would this increase the number of builds? Wouldn’t it just force you to use build A or build B, based on the path you chose?
That glyph makes them vulnerable for 3 seconds on your first hit. CD is like 20 seconds per monster, so unless you kill it in 3 seconds you’re out of luck.
All the other stuff, whether it’s on a gem or affix. There’s too little of it to be meaningful in most cases. If I wanted to absolutely pump max life, or make a rapid hitting ability leech for a ton I really only have one or two options. The point is diversity, with stats that are interesting or interact with other stats rather than just
Gain % damage
Gain % damage while stunned
Gain % damage while vuln
It’s just stale as is.
Well, my point was that the diversity is there, you’re just focusing on a minor element of the affix system. How many “damage to” affixes appear on an item other than a weapon or ring?
Literally 1, on gloves.
I get that on barbs you have 6 slots that can roll these, so maybe it’s just barb players being more inundated with these, but most of the gear can’t even roll these aspects that people are complaining about.
The paragon board is a good thing. Builds are dependable on the paragon board. A few rare nodes can make a difference.
It depends on how many forks and branches, but effectively there will be more specialized builds. For example, for barbarian there will be a main bleeding branch, a cry branch, a stomp branch, a thorn branch and so on, but this will be not excluding. You could have point into cry branch and thorn branch. I think this will look a bit more clean. A tree with general skills at top and very specialized skills at bottom.
But it’s just a suggestion, an idea, I don’t say it must be. I guess the purpose of the current linear tree is to be more easily modular and easy to understand.
I got a little chat with an AI about it, it got some interesting view about linear tree and fork tree.
It says a linear tree has some advantages:
- It encourages players to experiment with different skills and builds, as they can easily respec their skill points at any time without losing progress.
- It creates a sense of progression and reward, as players unlock new clusters and nodes as they level up and invest more points into the skill tree.
- It reduces the complexity and confusion that might arise from having too many options and branches in a standard fork tree.
- It allows the developers to balance the skills and passives more easily, as they can adjust the power and cost of each node according to its position and rank in the skill tree.
And also it says that a fork tree has some advantages:
- It allows players to customize their skills and passives according to their playstyle and preferences, as they can choose which branches and nodes to invest in.
- It creates a sense of diversity and replayability, as players can explore different combinations and synergies of skills and passives in each branch.
- It increases the challenge and strategy of the game, as players have to make meaningful choices and trade-offs between the different options and branches.
- It adds more depth and complexity to the game, as players have to consider the pros and cons of each skill and passive, and how they interact with each other.
I don’t think chatting with the AI is a good source of insight about this.
It may be true that players that can’t see the diversity in the linear tree would feel like there is more diversity in a branched tree, but a better approach is to have themed skills up and down the tree but not actually lock them away in different branches. This is what D4 does. You get blood and shadow and bone on the necro tree. You get fire and ice and lightning on the Sorc tree, etc. These are “branches” for the purpose of this sense of repeatability, but they allow you to dip into other “branches” as needed.
In a fully branched tree, you would not be able to dip into other branches without sacrificing the ability to reach the pinnacle nodes. In some cases that might be viable, but a lot fewer builds would be possible.
This is an example of why the AI isn’t a great source, because it is such a bland statement that it applies to literally every system where you have limited skill points.
This is also true of any system that lets you customize where you spend points.
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Yes, there needs to be more skill choices to take, as well as more skill customization when you have picked a skill to run with. More levels to them, to increase their power, and more twigs off the nodes, to help further differentiate your skill choice. Most aspects should actually be choices on various skill trees.
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