…we need reliable ways to make it overpower.
My suggestion is to let Gore Quills, if not all Blood Lance aspects, work for Blood Spears, too.
If the only options are Banished Lord’s, Xan rune and Blood Boiling aspect, Blood Spear builds are DOA.
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Those aspects don’t guarantee OP, Blood Lance skill upgrade nodes do. But since Bone Spear will become a Blood skill all Blood passives and the keypassive will work for it.
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Gore Quills does when combined with Rathma’s. The key passive without it doesn’t solve anything. Walking over to an orb to pick it up is out of the question.
Rathma’s Vigor you mean? Because that works with every Blood skill, and you can make Bone Spear a Blood skill with Indira’s. Just giveing the Blood Lance aspects to work with Bone Spear will not help untill it gets the Blood skill Tag.
“Works” with every blood skill is a bit of a reach. It only works if you can pick up orbs. Bone Spear/Blood Spear requires you to cast from max range. You want to spam spears and not run around like a chicken picking up orbs and fire a single spear every 5 seconds or so.
Orbs only reduce the timer, you will OP every 12 seconds even if you don’t pick up orbs. If you want Bone Spear to OP as fast as Blood Lance, than say that. Because the guaranteed OP from RV will work for Bone Spear every 12 sec when it gets the Blood skill Tag.
Sorry, I thought that was implied when I asked for a reliable way to overpower. Not just a way but a reliable way.
I don’t think building into overpower to deal damage every 12 seconds will be a successful build. You can do that if you want to, of course.
For me reliable meas it does it’s thing when you expect it to do it’s thing. And RV reliably does it’s thing every 12 seconds. What I am hopeful about is, they are testing casting skills while moveing on the Sorc, I hope one day that is going to be expanded to all skill and all classes as a base functionality. Than picking up BOs will not be such a problem with ranged skills.
Sure but even if we could cast while moving, spears require thoughtful positioning and picking up orbs isn’t compatible conceptually.
Rathma’s vigor had two components to it. OP every 12 seconds AND reduce that timer when you heal with blood orbs. If the second half of the passive is too clunky with your build, then it is not a reliable passive. Half of a passive being useful is not a reliable passive to build in to.
Having said that, the idea of the new pants is that you’re casting blood wave and imprisoning enemies at the end of it, so the orbs being spawned are roughly in a straight line between you and your target so it’s possible that moving to pick up orbs is not as clunky as we might initially think but we will see with testing.
Ya don’t say… Like I did not know, and allready discussed it.
And I am continuing the discussion by pointing out how unreliable Rathma’s is if you can’t reliably consume blood orbs. Which is to counter your point that it “reliably overpowers every 12 seconds.” That is just plain bad if you can’t have a way to reduce that timer. You’re casting bone spear 3 times per second. That is one overpower every 36 casts which is only overpowering 2.8% of the time. Which is less than the flat 3% every skill gets for free. So if you think using a key passive that is worse than what everyone gets for free is “reliable,” then you are mistaken. Simple as that. And the point of me saying this isn’t for your benefit. It’s for others who might read this and be misinformed by your statement. Because as it stands, Rathma’s is NOT a reliable option for the new blood spear build and hopefully the devs understand or blood spear will likely be a dead build walking in to season 7.
I thought the same thing…
Thats why blood lance build is awesome, because you use this aspect, and consume orbs from distance:
“Casting Blood Lance will consume Blood Orbs to also conjure lances from them. Each additional Blood Lance deals [20 - 60]% of normal damage and prioritizes targeting un-lanced enemies.”
Blood lance also have a upgrade that do overpower every 6 lance cast.
Bloodsurge, unfortunately dont have a way to consume orbs from distance (just corpses with unique bracers), but usually you do alot of overpower because is guaranteed every 5 bloodsurge cast.
I dont know how it will be with bonespear, but there are some bone wave builds that use blood lance + aspect just to pick up the orbs.
Perhaps bone spear builds around this pants will not even use rathmas vigor as key passive, but take advantage of other passives (ex: tidal) plus bone passives (since the skill will be both).
This is ok with blood surge because it hits the whole screen. So it’s not as clunky to manually walk around and pick up orbs as precision with casting isn’t as important as blood spear would be. With spear, positioning matters a lot more which is why collecting orbs is too clunky. You would effectively have to run bone spear the way sever runs at the moment and stand directly on top of the mobs so the orbs spawn on top of you and you collect them automatically. But then that defeats the whole idea of blood wave pushing the mobs away from you and trapping them inside of bone prison. So yeah… the whole concept seems too clunky to be a viable build. Will have to test of course to see how it goes.
But we don’t solely rely on RV aren’t we? There is still Banished Lord’s, Xan rune and Blood Boiling aspect.
Also something being reliable or procing it fast enough is not the same. We must proc it reliably fast enough for shure, I never said OP isn’t right. They just didn’t word their thoughts right.
Overpowering isn’t even the main problem with the build. Set aside the reality that lance/surge also get the things you mention as well as having OP cooked in to the skill so they are just purely better as overpower builds. But we have to ask ourselves why we are turning spear into a blood skill at all. Presumably its to get access to the blood passives. But when Coalesced requires you to be healthy and Tides is half effective unless you’re healthy, they why have health drain at all and “damage reduction while injured” as an affix? It’s all very counterintuitive. Do you want to be healthy or not? The pants have OP% damage on them so intuitively you will want to OP as often as possible to gain the additive damage but then why not just play surge/lance that are more equipped to do that? You could build in to blood wave instead and use spear as cooldown/corpse consumption utility, but then you’d be playing a weaker version of blood wave that will exist with the other pants. The whole thing just feels way too clunky to be a viable build at this point. Hopefully the PTR reveals this and they have time to fix some things before it goes live.
You’re right, it might come down to the new blood wave knockback implementation. Maybe it works like a charm. Maybe we even get a bone prison that actually survives.
Still, you’re kind of running into the pack while picking up orbs.
And what happens when mobs become unstoppable? Do they just ignore the waves and don’t get trapped inside the prison? Or is the knockback considered a soft CC that can’t be ignored? Not sure about this one actually.