Ideas on how to improve the Endgame, making it more fun and less tedious, as well as increasing players freedom

Please, add something like this to the game:

When we reach the endgame and have our builds completed, the only thing that still presents a challenge is the Pit. However, endlessly repeating the Pit becomes extremely tedious. The game has many good features, such as the Open World, Dungeons, Cellars, Strongholds, Helltides, Hordes, Citadel, Undercity, Nightmare Dungeons, Legion Events, Tree of Whispers, and Uber Bosses. But at endgame, you simply annihilate everything in your path, which makes the game feel monotonous and forces you to get stuck in the Pit.

My idea is to bring the challenge level of the Pit to the rest of the game without needing to add new difficulty levels, thus avoiding extra penalties on armor and resistances.

Now, how to do that? My idea is based on systems that you have already created in the game.

For the Open World, Dungeons, Cellars, Strongholds, Helltides, Citadel, Undercity, Legion Events, Tree of Whispers, and Lilith, the idea would be to bring back the Profane Mindcage, reworked, so that it wouldn’t be removed upon death, with a duration of 1 hour, and could be crafted at the Alchemist. Currently, Torment 4 is equivalent to Pit 65. The idea would be that each Mindcage used would increase the difficulty of these game areas, equivalent to a certain Pit level, giving players the power to adjust the difficulty they want to play at. The Mindcage could only be used in Torment 4.

Example:

Torment 4 is equivalent to Pit 65. Activating 1 Profane Mindcage would make these areas of the game have the equivalent difficulty of Pit 80, along with a 6% experience and gold drop bonus.
Using 1 Profane Mindcage is equivalent to Pit 80 and provides 6% experience and gold drop.
Using 2 Profane Mindcages is equivalent to Pit 95 and provides 8% experience and gold drop.
Using 3 Profane Mindcages is equivalent to Pit 110 and provides 10% experience and gold drop.
Using 4 Profane Mindcages is equivalent to Pit 125 and provides 12% experience and gold drop.
Using 5 Profane Mindcages is equivalent to Pit 135 and provides 14% experience and gold drop.
Using 6 Profane Mindcages is equivalent to Pit 145 and provides 16% experience and gold drop.

For Hordes and Nightmare Dungeons, the solution would be similar. Infernal Compass and Nightmare Dungeons Sigils would still be based on the difficulty level, but now Tiers would be added to the Occultist again for these keys.

Example:

The Normal Infernal Compass and Sigils have the same difficulty as the game. The Compass and Sigil tiers have a difficulty equivalent to higher levels of the Pit and receive a drop bonus of gold, items, and experience equivalent to the Pit level.
Tier 1 Compass and Sigils are equivalent to Pit 80.
Tier 2 Compass and Sigils are equivalent to Pit 95.
Tier 3 Compass and Sigils are equivalent to Pit 110.
Tier 4 Compass and Sigils are equivalent to Pit 125.
Tier 5 Compass and Sigils are equivalent to Pit 135.
Tier 6 Compass and Sigils are equivalent to Pit 145.

For the Uber Bosses, bring back the Stygian Stone, but with an increased drop rate, and it should be craftable using Khazra Horns at the Alchemist, which would also benefit from an increased drop rate. When the player summons an Uber, there will be 7 difficulty levels, with the normal level equivalent to Torment 4, and 6 additional levels, each based on a Pit level to summon the normal boss, which stays the same. For each higher Uber level, in addition to the standard material, it would require one more Stygian Stone.

Example:

Level 1 Uber: uses 1 Stygian and is equivalent to Pit 80, dropping more items, gold, and additional runes.
Level 2 Uber: uses 2 Stygian and is equivalent to Pit 95, dropping more items, gold, and additional runes.
Level 3 Uber: uses 3 Stygian and is equivalent to Pit 110, dropping more items, gold, and additional runes.
Level 4 Uber: uses 4 Stygian and is equivalent to Pit 125, dropping more items, gold, and additional runes.
Level 5 Uber: uses 5 Stygian and is equivalent to Pit 135, dropping more items, gold, and additional runes.
Level 6 Uber: uses 6 Stygian and is equivalent to Pit 145, dropping more items, gold, and additional runes.

These changes would bring a quality-of-life improvement to the game, making it more enjoyable for a longer time, less repetitive, and giving players the freedom to choose how they want to play and experience this entire world created by you.

Now, one last request: bring Malphas back as an Uber Boss. He was one of the best bosses in the game, and it would be great to have more Uber Bosses. It’s nice to have a greater variety of bosses. They can have duplicated loot tables, like Duriel and Andariel, and as more unique items are added to the game, you can separate the loot tables between the bosses. I’m not sure if this is part of the plans for future expansions maybe you’re saving these bosses but it would be fun to see old familiar faces like Azmodan, Belial, Leoric, Malthael, Izual, Astaroth, Elias, Ghoon, and others again, even if just as Ubers, without the need for them to be part of the game’s storyline.

10 Likes

+1 for mindcage idea. Not a fan of stygians coming back.

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I’m not sure most of the playerbase even hits P80. I kind of wish D4 published the actual stats on it, but I’d be surprised if even 50% even hit P60. Probably drops to 20% at P80, and just 10% to P100.

I don’t agree that P100 should be that way, but build balance for most classes means a very long grind. Abilities just aren’t tuned well for it.

And also - why do all “improvement ideas” seem to revolve around increasing drops??? :thinking::thinking::thinking:

3 Likes

I think we need special end-game new maps, like Heaven or Hell, with high difficult enemies, but also special rewards too. When I say maps, I think something a bit bigger than a dungeon. Maybe ended with a big badass Diablo boss or a corrupted Angel…

3 Likes

The idea is for those who have already completed the game and are only doing Pit. This idea aims to provide more options besides Pit for those who have already completed all the content without difficulty. For those who haven’t reached this level, the Torment difficulty levels are the next step. This is for those who have already reached Torment 4 and want to maintain a level of challenge throughout the game, not just in one activity.

As for the increase in drops, it is only to keep up with the increase in difficulty. It could be a chance to drop more items from the boss or items with better quality.

But, to be honest, I would be happy with just the increase in difficulty without any loot bonus.

I came up with this idea because in season 6, I am at Paragon 282. I stopped at this level because I couldn’t stand just redoing Pit after Pit. With these changes, the other activities in the game would be viable options, making the game more fun and keeping me playing. They are a simple way to solve the endgame problem without depending on new activities being added. In the future, when new activities come, this won’t get in the way at all. The part about adding new bosses is to provide more variety, because repeating the same bosses isn’t fun.

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Some of these things are not good I’m afraid

  • Open World - pain in the a** - most of the time too busy, too many players on the map, some OP randoms blasts everything around you and ruin the fun
  • Citadel - cannot be done solo, they completely ignored the fact that most of people still prefer play solo though, playing in the team should be an option, not req. to complete the dungeon
  • Legion Events and World Bosses - not challenging at all, you can stay away and just wait when the others will finish the quest/wipe the boss - not fun at all
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Agree that the game plummets a bit in the end game. Pit doesn’t feel good. I personally dislike when the THING that lets you grow is also the END goal as with the pit. Tying paragon to it seems off to me.

I also don’t want a consumable to be a band-aid fix (mind-cage). Using a consumable to get any sense of progression just doesn’t seem right to me. Game system/progression should be smooth enough that you don’t need to add a consumable just to get what should be there anyway.

Just my thought though. Thanks for making me think!

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True, the current Pits are nowhere near the same quality as greater rifts in D3 which people are willing to push every d3 season. They could just rework them and call it “Greater Pits” where there is more strategy + the RNG elements involved. Bolt on the leaderboard system and you have something to aim for, but not possible with a 2 level Pit system we have in place now.

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Good, because as soon as you increase the rewards, you’re undermining the difficulty. That’s why D3, a game with 22 difficulties, is still crazy easy on T16. It only gets harder in later GRs, because, like Pits, that’s when the difficulty increases outpace the rewards.

Players don’t understand this concept, or more likely just don’t want to accept it. They want more difficulty but also more rewards for the extra difficulty.

3 Likes

Eh no thanks. I’d like a more engaging challenge than just monsters having more HP. That just sounds like D3 with it’s 20 difficulties all over again. I would love more multi-phase pinnacle fights like Lilith, only not so braindead trivial, like she is now. Even on my crappy undergeared druid with some items not even masterworked, Lilith on T4 is quite easily defeated. On my other classes the fight is a downright joke. Blizzard should be building out an actual proper endgame boss ladder with a new boss or two each season, each increasing in difficulty/mechanics. Only problem is for that to feel somewhat successful, class/build balance would have to be WAY tighter, and that seems to be something Blizzard is incapable of achieving.

I’d also like to see Dark Citadel on T4 made more difficult and more mechanics, with then more suitable/cooler cosmetic rewards.

Unfortunately, this is a game for the 2hr a week casuals, who barely play the game. Instead of giving even a little something for more dedicated players, Blizzard cater solely to the people who play the least, and have no interest in making even remotely challenging content. Game will forever be doomed to be a trivial participation trophy game. Fun for a week each season.

2 Likes

I believe they will bring new content at some point in the future. This idea is just to fix the challenge for those who are already at Torment 4 and only have a real challenge in the Pit, so that those at that level have motivation to continue playing without being stuck with just one or two activities, and can have fun playing however they want. I also want more types of endgame, but they will bring this idea of ​​mine over time and for an easy solution to be implemented while we wait for more new content.

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I hope they bring the patchwerk boss fight from WOLTK in the Naxxaramas raid to D4, I am guessing this is what you looking for?

I play every season and I’ve never hit Pit 80 on any build in any class while solo. (I didn’t play a SB).

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Most people that didn’t start off as SB, switched to SB so they could get the fell Maven title.
The only progress title in the game. Now they can chill for the rest of the xpac.

Honestly I think one of the bigger issues Is the open world nature of the game. It’s… not changing. The world is the same it was a year and a half ago. All they tend to do with a season is add a different color area to sections of the map that we already have been to 1000 times.

Any new endgame content would need to be somewhere new, or in a dungeon like setting where they can use tiles as they do for Nightmare Dungeons and the pit. But, there is only so much you can do with that without it already feeling like Nightmare Dungeons or the Pit anyway.

Anything on the overworld needs to fundamentally change the area for a while and not just hell tides adding more mobs.

  • Do something with the strongholds

  • Have towns get invaded that we have to defend against, and eventually take back if that fails

  • Let the player go on an expedition where they have to complete a series of progressively mechanically complicated dungeons and risk losing progress if they try to push their luck between each dungeon. Sometimes I want more than “Press button screen dies”. Give me some mechanics to deal with that streamers will complain about because it’s not 100% optimal.

  • Have some… Demon loving cult invade dungeons and cause a whole bunch of problems we have to deal with. I dunno!

3 Likes

I think people want to feel they are getting something extra for doing something harder, which I think is totally reasonable, but more than that, I think a lot of players (myself included) think the base level is already inadequate.

Every now and then Blizzard says “more quality, less quantity” but then back peddles on it right away. Right now, we get neither quality or quantity.

A lot of us I feel have kinda stockholmed ourselves into putting forth the worst suggestion we can because we don’t expect Blizzard to ever put forward something better - like a lot of the early suggestions for making tempering a bit less punishing would in practice be far worse or more time consuming then just finding a replacement item.

So, long story short, I think people unhappy with drops feel Blizzard is more likely to go for “more” instead of “better.”

I am unhappy with drops. A lot of people seem to be, including those who claim to play a significant amount of time.

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Just do it like the competitor, where you improve the end game mechanics. It doesn’t need to be anything complex and punishing. Make a 6th paragon table, the same for all classes, where you improve the reward and challenge. For example, you can take a rare nodule that increases Duriel by 2 Torments and gives you a 5% chance of receiving ubers. This would give a buff in reaching level 300 and having all the rare nodules.

-It could have special glyphos on it with quality of life, with 100% speed movement in cities, chance to find amulets with passive etc.