I just changed “Heavy Handed” on my amulet to “Pit Fighter” and he started to hit much harder.
Comparing 2 amulets
1-Strength GA, 5 to Counteroffensive , 5 to Heavy handed.
2-Strength GA, 6 to Counteroffensive , 4 to Pit Fighter
With first one I was stuck at pit 131, could not clear on time for more than 2 weeks. As soon as I made 2nd one I cleared 135. When reading their definitions it should not be that big of a difference.
I am curious what is your experience with those? Or “Heavy Handed” is not working again on amulet as it didn’t before in earlier season(s)?
It has everything to do with your Damage Pools. If you don’t have a lot of Crit Damage, which a lot of the guides suggesting Heavy Handed don’t (which makes no sense), then you’re multiplying a relatively small damage pool and not gaining much of anything.
Pit Fighter works the same way, Damage vs Close pool gets multiplied. So if you have more, you’re benefiting more. You’re also gaining a larger EQ Multiplier if you’re not already capped as carrotfeets mentioned. Also you get extra Damage Reduction, making Pit Fighter both Offensive and Defensive, so often the better choice.
If you’re going to go multi-passives on Amulet, what would make a lot more sense would be Pit Fighter + Counter Offensive. Unless you actually do stack a lot of Crit Damage.
Is your Damage to Close already capped before the Amulet for Force of Nature (assuming you use that)? Also, do you have 100% Crit Chance?
If your damage is primarily coming from Earthquakes, honestly, I am not sure if Heavy Hitter is calculating for them depending on the source of EQ. This could be intentional or not and be may depend on the source that spawns the Earthquake.
For example, you can assign a 2H Arsenal Weapon to Leap and Leap can cause an EQ. You cannot assign an Arsenal Weapon to Ground Stomp, and theoretically, it should go off the “Last Used Arsenal Weapon”. If the last used was a 1H, would that particular instance of Earthquake benefit from Heavy Hitter as it Crits? What about the former? What about if EQs proc from Runes etc.?
Snapshotting is very weird in D4 and if you look at the issues Minions have with Medeln, you can see what I mean by that. There are so many Conditionals it is really hard to tell what is benefitting from what.
Damage to Close on the other hand is fairly universal so Pit Fighter might benefit all Quakes, which is kind of weird because technically, it should be the proximity of the enemy to you when you cast the Skill on if it qualifies as “Close” or not.
I think a test would be to take off everything except for the Amulet and note the EQ damage on Test Dummies each way. Try spawning EQs different ways and see if that matters.
My money is on Heavy Hitter straight up not working with EQs.
Heavy Hitter definitely works with EQs. Even just walking, no beserk, having tempered ranks of Heavy Hitter and then maxing them out my damage from EQ’s went to well over 15B per pulse, just from walking.
However, we’re talking about Amulet Passives, so Heavy Handed not Heavy Hitter.
It does, it’s just that EQ builds don’t really stack very much base Crit Damage. They go with Beserk, Close, Vulnerable.
Me personally, I have a sizeable damage pool in Crit, Vulnerable, Close, and of course the cap for Beserk. Since I no longer use GF I spread it out a bit more since I have multiple sources of Vulnerable multipliers as well.
Heavy Handed and in general critical damage multipliers are just damage multipliers on crit.
They can increase your critical damage in stats panel and other things that scale with critical damage like Gushing Wounds.
It doesn’t matter how much critical damage you have, rank 7 Heavy Handed will increase your damage by 42% on crit when using 2handers. That’s why even though SB has huge crit damage multipliers like Aspect of Redirected Force and Rod of Kepeleke, players still opt for affixes like Basic Skill damage that can roll higher on tempers.
Wrong, it would increase your Critical Damage Pool by 42x. It is not a global multiplier. Neither is Pit Fighter. Things like Slaying Strike, Counter Offensive, and Wallop are global. That’s why Heavy Handed and Pit Fighter specifically mention their respective Damage Pools and the other passives mention conditions met to achieve multipliers. Legendary bonuses on Glyphs work the same way, they are just Damage Pool multipliers. Even the ones that state Increased Damage are not global. Well I guess they are “in a sense” but they get factored into your All Damage pool.
If you invest nothing into the damage pool being multiplied, you get nothing. “That” is why the second amulet works so much better for OP in spite of what all the guides insist on. It has nothing to do with Heavy Handed not functioning and everything to do with misunderstanding its function.
Like I said, it increases your critical damage in stats panel and things that scale with critcal damage can benefit from it but it doesn’t work the way you think.
Heavy Handed would be garbage if it multiplies only the additive critical damage because that means it completely ignores all other additive damage affixes including huge Overpower damage from max life and fortify as well as other global damage multipliers.
Is that with the first or second amulet? If it’s the second one you actually have a decent amount of Crit Damage but low Crit Chance. Can you give a side by side comparison of the two or did you junk the old one? Are you capped at 500% Close with the old one? Without the extra Pit Fighter ranks? Also, I’m assuming you are not using anything like Grandfather, correct? You have way more Damage while Beserking than you need. Without substantial multipliers for it you only really need the 450 for Blood Rage and then there are better investments.
@ Jemuzu: I have 4 GA helm and Chest (ugly bastard and mantle of mountain, MW ed yellow on WOB cooldown reduction and orange on chance for EQ to DD). 1 GA Crit Chance Fist of Fate, Tassets of Dawning Sky pants MW ed on +all resistances. 3 GA boots MW ed EQ size. 2H Mace 3GA MW ed yellow Chance for EQs to cast twice. 1H Mace and Sword for middle weapons, both hit 6 to Heavy Hitter, as well as 2H polearm which has 10 to heavy hitter, I have 3 rings that I change from time to time but basically all are STR+LIFE+CC one of them has close dam, other one dam berserking, 3rd one has crit damage.
now the Amulets u asked for are
1-30.7% Strength, 6 to counter, 4 to pit fighter, WrathOB cooldown red, EQ size
2-22% Strength, 5 to counter, 5 to heavy handed, rest is same
STR = 5022
INT=420
WP=601
DEX=622
No I do not use any uber gear, I have Shako and GF but they reduce my power significantly so i do not use them. All the aspects I use are more important than the uber powers. Conc strikes on Boots, EQ on 2H mace, Battle Mad and executioner on mid weapons, Incendiary on 2H polearm, Wehement and bold chieftain on rings and Bul Kathos on amu.
It’s sounding more and more like you’re not benefitting as much from Heavy Handed because you only Crit maybe half the time. So you’re seeing more of a performance difference from Pit Fighter because it’s increasing your base damage, all the time.
You should try to increase your Crit Chance to 80-90% and then test again. Because you have a decent amount of Crit Damage, Heavy Handed in your case might actually be beneficial, but without high Crit Chance it won’t be.
Now, there is still one valid point that was brought up about Heavy Handed. That being the whole “do runes/ground stomp benefit from the bonus since they’re not spawned based on a ‘two handed weapon’.” That’s hard to say without in depth testing. Though logic would dictate no. But the game’s code isn’t always logical.
I personally don’t use Heavy Handed anyway, but I’m also Dual Wield and use Ramanaldi’s (yes, rama’s works on earthquakes in spite of what people are telling you). So just testing it out for yourself is the best thing you can do.