That’s something I’ve come to expect from endgame systems like this. Partially because of…Blizzard, inventing paragon points one Diablo game ago that were shared between all your characters.
Silly me I guess.
edit: a lot of you have come here to insult me, and that’s fine, i’ve had bad days and a crappy life before, I get it.
This isn’t a “paragon points should be shared between characters” post. This isn’t a complain about D4 post. This is simply a post about expectations vs reality based on past experiences in the franchise, and maybe it’ll alleviate the “oh :(” I felt for someone else. There are plenty of reasons that paragon points being shared across characters made sense to me, and plenty of reasons why their not doing so makes sense as well. Again, this isn’t the post you want it to be so that you can be mean to a newby.
I hope ya’ll days/lives get better. I’m super proud of you for knowing everything about Diablo 4, and I’m sure your cat is too.
Yes silly you. Paragon points in D4 aren’t the same as D3, they are much more powerful and the biggest power gain when leveling from 50-100. To have them all shared would be silly, you would be astronomically strong at lvl 50 with 4 paragon boards already filled out. D3 paragon points didn’t provide nearly as much player power. There is however the 20 Global paragon points you get from renown.
I think the biggest problem with it personally is not being able to save presets and easily reset or respec the board because I think this sways players away from wanting to freely mess around with it. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter what Blizzard does to try and make it not “so boring” because most players are just going to google their builds anyways instead of trying to experiment. I think there’s a paradox in game design where the more complex you make a system to try and make it interesting and provide choice, the more players will opt to have someone else figure out the optimal build for them. A lot of people compare this system to PoE, I don’t know of a single person who plays PoE that doesn’t follow a build guide every league.
I’m sure someones going to reply to me telling me they made up their own build, grats i’m happy for you, gold star, but most players at end game probably aren’t doing that.
How do we know it’s the most popular when it hasn’t happened yet?
Or are you talking about D3’s seasons? I’d be wary comparing the two before we see how seasons actually feel in this game. Season 1 might be pretty even compared to Eternal.
Also, I wasn’t talking about seasons or renown at all, just paragon points in general.
I don’t see too much of a difference in the power boost of a fresh 50 getting all your paragon points versus a fresh level 1 starting with 10 skill points.
It’s a power boost based on your time already spent playing the game to give characters who have began at a new point in the progress systems a head start while you focus on gear.
A level 50 with a handful of paragon points wearing all WT2 gear isn’t going to be any more godly than a level 1 with 10 skill points wearing 4 whites.
They really went all in on keeping the same name for things but changing what they do. Like the Legendary items, it was very confusing in the betas. In D3/I a “Legendary” was essentially a unique. In D4 a “Legendary” is a rare with a fancy affix, and Uniques are uniques.
Oh wait, no no…silly me, that’s right. How dare I rely on over 10 years of franchise memory. Like, hey I sorta expected a map overlay in this ARPG from the people who invented the map overlay in an ARPG but I suppose that was silly too.
You’re conflating handful of paragon points with ALL the paragon points, you can already get a handful of realm wide paragon points by doing your renown. I think this tells me your first character didn’t get to a very high level and you don’t really understand the cumulative power of four full boards + 4 glyphs because there’s a big difference between that and being lvl 1 with 10 extra skillpoints.
The paragon system is really nothing but Poe’s skill tree merged with Wolcen: Lords of Mayhem’s.
While I don’t really mind that they did this. It sucks that they took two unique ideas & approaches & somehow made a system worse than both. The paragon system is nothing but stat bumps focusing on getting stats to get other stat bumps once you have achieved enough stats. How boring. I assume min/maxers are loving the idea though.
If we ignore how boring the paragon system is, it has two other main issues -
It isn’t randomized but preplanned. I’m aware that a fully randomize paragon board could lead to a lot of issues but it still would be more exciting than pre-planned meta’s designed by the devs to achieve outcomes that they want instead of the outcomes players could create.
Magic & legendary nodes are just larger stat bumps…which is just…depressing. Why doesn’t Legendary or magic nodes do something (Change Fire damage to cold damage or
add a modifier to cutthroat skills, etc).
You know, anything that could actually effect the skills you use. A freezing fire wall mixed with ice shards would be an interesting build to try on sorc.
Poe’s skill tree is copy/paste FF X. It’s not unique in the slightest. They even kept the same shapes and how you move through it. I don’t know what Wolcen is.
Anyway, I asked how to make it less boring, which I guess you’re saying make the choice options random and have extra benefits on magic nodes and such…how would you balance that?
I make my own builds (which you knew would be coming) but I would point out that one of the key aspects of Poe & its builds is the sheer variety of them. Having played Poe and seen D4 builds, the difference is like the Sun compared to the moon in terms of variety. If you want to achieve T16 maps sure you need to min/max but to just play the game…no. Trying new stuff\variety is why when D4 is compared to Poe it falls short.
I can agree that to much complexity is bad because instant gratification & laziness will always be more preferable than learning & experimentation (not a dig, just a statement of reality as I see it). It is also a matter of time available to contribute. D4 is definitely a casual gamer’s game but that doesn’t mean you have to limit players into a very limited set of builds and focus entirely on stat grinding over creativity\choice.
Even if players will look up builds to play a game, it doesn’t mean that variety & choice should be limited to stat bumps to unlock stat bumps as a core design feature.
What are all these points without any glyphs? Without the stats to activate the secondary effects due to subpar gear? I am going out on a limb here, but I am gonna assume the vast, enormous, supermajority of players aren’t rolling their 2nd or 3rd character once they have max paragon points. It will be a handful for almost every single person who creates an alt. For the extremely small minority of people who are making a second or third character once they have gotten ALL the paragon points, don’t they deserve to be rewarded in some way for that dedication?
I did know that paragon points aren’t shared, because they serve a different function in D4 vs D3, and I researched the $70 product before I bought it.
Not sure how people think paragon are boring when they’re your biggest source of power besides aspects.
The reward for hitting 50 is access to paragon points. The reward for having already earned multiple points on another character would be to have those points present on the fresh one. Maybe stop being frustrated at the existence of my opinion/realization for a second lol. This is how every endgame paragon-point-like system in every game I can currently think of that has one has functioned, including the past iterations of Diablo.
You don’t need to be mad at me about it.
But then after I unlocked a bunch of skill points on that character, my next character had a bunch of skill points to start out with, and that wasn’t boring!
