S14, valloch is useless and few people reported it, with overpower nerf on every single aspect it could have been, and valloch, goodbye hellfracture builds, sigil of chaos builds, and many offmeta builds.
Apocalypse users, you should still be able to clear t12, way less comfortably but still. So much collateral damage to nerf a build that will still be the best of the builds relying on this 1/4 of the class mechanic.
Overreact much?
Overpower was really strong. It needed a slight nerf, but it’s also true that it was over done.
Even so, Valloch remains quite strong.
If you die doing anything and your build rely on valloch you are forced to wait to use him and get overpower stacks because of the cost increase. It makes so if i die in a wave in any wave content mode im basically good to just stop and retry.
Between all the nerf i lost something like 700-1000% damage too.
I disagree that overpowered needed a nerf. Apocalypse needed a nerf, according to some, but even this i wouldnt agree. It was mid compare to any other class last season.
Just how often are you dying? Dying is the issue, not Valloch. Don’t die. That is just a dumb argument.
I very much doubt you lost anywhere near as much damage as you claim. Math it out. Not with made up numbers. Show us the actual loss.
Valloch nerfs cost 3 OP stacks out of 10, if you were using Horazon. That’s a 30% damage reduction. If you were stacking more then 10, then the loss is actually less. In terms of +OP damage per stack availability, that was reduced roughly 65%. So the full OP nerf can be asserted to be ~100% total, at most. And while OP does less, that loss can be somewhat negated by leaning into other mechanics and aspects.
Even taking into consideration Heir and Apoc reductions, you are nowhere near as big a loss as you think.
Yes, Warlock was “mid” relative to Pit performance. So? Some class being mid is inevitable. Why care about a few pit tiers? Outside of Pits, its absolutely irrelevant. That a few Pit tiers difference is so bothersome to a minority of vocal forum users, says more about those posters than it does Blizzard Development.
That said, there are legitimate gripes. Bugged Wendigo Band, an otherwise great ring, being broken in such a dumb way…And the horrible design of Flesh of Abbodon charm set that punishes being in demonform without being much more effective than Horazon is dumb. Every build is better off with Horazon…that’s legitimately bad design.
But the Valloch issues you claim, is a really miniscule overall.
Have you played warlock ? Dont die on one of the most squishy class in the game, sure.
You dont have to believe me, just calculate. I can tell you are not in build crafting if you didnt see just looking at the patch.
Lost ~4 stacks of overpower (between valloch + tidal) , nerf to banished lord talisman, -35% damage on cremator aspect, ~4.5% damage per stack of overpower due to the temper nerf. I was at 18 stacks, huge cc buff and 12% damage per stacks. Now im at 12 stacks at best, temper is low, if you do the math even without accounting for heir its hundreds of %.
“A few pit tier” - not everybody plays build that you find in guide. My build was tier 120-125 in s13, on PTR will 5 mythics equiped it was hardly doing tier 95. I am currently at 95 on s14 live because they had mercy and buffed moloch beaten flame that became a better alternative than banished lord for talisman.
The gameplay of valloch is based on overpower that was hugely nerfed. Even without nerfing valloch itself the nerf was already huge with just the few stuff i listed above.
Now it cost more and last longer, for what reason i cant tell, it make it just highly impractical but who would expect blizzard to test their stuff ? Not you visibly.
Warlock mid relative to pit performance - tell me you didnt play the game without telling me challenge.
Pit performance in s13 for warlock was the least of the gripe of people. Having to go through 5 loops to make you damage, being slow and stopping to cast/being super static, no defense skills aparr from dark prison, many aspect of the gameplay not being well thought out, scaling being off on many skills, the list is long.
Obviously I play a warlock.
You don’t seem to understand how Math works. 18 down to 12 stacks is only a 33% damage loss. I do not know how much your +OP damage per stack has gone down. I suspect its likely half, like mine is. After adjusting for the base OP multiplier, that means a difference of a ~180%.
I play the same build in season 14 as I did in season 13 and I do not notice any difference yet. And my gear is no where near full. No mythics and barely any GAs. Glyphs at ~75. Pit 90 is easy. I will concede i have not tried higher and would expect not to be able to do 95 yet. My build is not meta or guide dependent, though its nothing complicated either. I use Valloch and have no issues keeping the buffs active. And frankly, I’m tanky, not squishy. And I’m SSF. But I did get a good Endurant Faith as my first and only Unique Seal.
So you find 180% counting for the temper, now you can had about 4-5% per OP stacks (so 10-12 times 4-5% for the OP we can have , and 8% for times 6 for the OP stacks we cant have anymore) for banished lord too, add cremator aspect and heir to that and we are maybe not exactly at 700% but not exactly super far either.
What skills are you using ?
I am buillding around hellfracture hellfire version, using thatamet spine, starless skies, hemat stone, crown of Lucion, riteless set and moloch talisman.
I have 5 volatility empowered skills in my bar which makes moloch beaten flame give me a huge damage buff and primary stats buff
My hellfracture hit between 4 and 100b depending on the active buffs. All my glyphs are 70, and so far i have only one mythic (crafted).
However i am a chips in 90+ (and frankly last season i guess it was tyrael that made me be tanky enough for t12 but that ship as sailed) even tho i kill stuff in one shot when buffed, apart from some elite.
If you have run ruptures in helltide a bit, i dont know what your build is, maybe endurant faitj makes a big difference, but its impossible to avoid most of the on death effects when there is 3-4 druid / barb + you killing in AoE everything and having sword flying, poison pool, lava explosion everywhere.
Dying means you come back with 0 overpower stacks, no valloch at first so no active shard bonus, and my hellfracture that does 100b when full buffed does than 1b when i have no valloch. Depending on where i pop back im litteraly defensless as i hit like a wet noodle and have a 5-6 s mandatory wait because valloch cant be invoc+ used.
I have played around with defense unique like binding pants for Dark prison, but this doesnt work very well with prid as prid was also nerfed and i have no reliable way of generating 500 regularly (i have litteraly one summon so nagu rune doesnt work, especially since Ceh is useless now) i also do not have access to the aspect that gives 40% DR for 2h sword.
The build was more or less the same in s13, pushing 125 and doing 12+ easy. It was not cracked, it was fluid and while a bit squishy it was ok. Now its super fragile, damage are hard to match (but better than PTR). And mostly valloch feels like clunky because of those unecessary changes.
The while OP nerf made him way less usefull than it used to be. Its the only shard you cant activate right away when you start anything launching the game. In helltide or infernal hoard it shows massively, which you are running a lot if you have to get a good hemat stone.
Reading comprehension…that 180% is inclusive of all Overpower mechanics and nerfs. There is nothing to add to it. And it does not include non Warlock general nerfs like the murdered Heir, which went from absolute BiS to near worthless for everyone. You don’t get to count banished lord, etc, twice. Its in the 180%. I’ll entertain you on Heir…that is another roughly 50% on average for solo players relative to alternative aspects. That takes you to ~230% damage loss. That is definitely 2-3 Pit tiers. But its a far cry from your initial complaining.
I’m doing the same Blazing Scream Skullsplitter Trails build i did before. Its fun and fast. But I intend to collect gear to try a few variations of non Blazing Scream, or an abyss version. I do intend to toy with Hellfracture eventually, and a Brimstone build for the hell of it. No pun intended. I’m intentionally avoiding Apoc and Eviscerate builds, though there are Blazing Scream Eviscerate builds that might be interesting, though not high end. For non abyss alternative builds, I’ll likely first lean into Molten Bomb, mostly because i have already stashed some good pieces for Basic skill builds.
I have considered leveraging Moloch since its buffed, but more than 3 skills for it is just going to be annoying, though doable if you use Rampage….i prefer a controller for D4 so Rampage is awkward….ironic since I really enjoyed D3 with M&K.
The occasional death in T10 helltides rupture chaos does happen, mostly because i’m sometimes slow to gloomwalk clear Endurant Faith DoT effect. But those deaths are likely done now that I just finally went and got a Temerity.
Endurant Faith makes one shot kills outside of lag, an almost never occurrence.
Too many people want to lean into max damage, forgetting that Warlock’s Willpower is a big boost to +healing. Its intended to be leveraged as such. My Amulet transfigured an Undying Aspect and I have a 1300 LoH on weapon and a couple GA life regen (though I will drop these with better gear when I can). Warlocks do better with 1H+Focus fast attacking, imo, and that means ~3+ casts per second. All together, my healing is ~3000 per cast, 9000/second, before ~150% healing, or roughly 18K/second. Additionally, while Bulwark’s value is reduced by temerity as there is a 100% life cap on Barrier, Earthen Bulwark is itself equivalent to constant ~15K heal every 3 seconds even with no +barrier. I never used it together with Temerity but I’m toying with them both.
Back to Endurant Faith….it brings max value to a core Warlock stat mechanic of +healing.
Valloch is my only Dominance dump whereas it sounds like you have others too. If Valloch is only spender, its just not an issue to have it ready every 10-12 seconds, or after a death…whcih with Endurant Faith or even just Temerity, you would avoid. Keep in mind that Temerity effective doubles your health and fills back up fast, so its worth 50% DR equivalent on its own.
In regards to Dark Prison, I am manually casting it this season.
7 stacks of overpower = 105%
Then per item with overpower stack damage
11 x 6 for the temper = 66%
7 stacks of temper lost due to nerfs in how many overpower stacks you get (and temper was 12% ) = 84%
150% damage per overstack lost per item, assuming gloves and jewels thats 4 time 150 so 600%.
11 x 4 for banished lord = 44%
7 stacks worth of banished lord lost at 7% = 49%
Another 90%, 690% damage lost
Cremator = 35%
725% total on overpower alone.
Heir= 80% + crit chance
Now,you wanted the math and since you cant figure it out here it is. Reading comprehension you said ?
One or two pit tier ? Im wondering if you actually even own the game for real. I went from hitting 4T per hellfracture to 100-150b at best. Im telling you 30 pit tier loss.
Guess its too hard too calculate ?
Im pretty sure you wont reach t12 farming with endurant faith equipped and temerity. You can lean on defense if you wish, but you’ll do no damage. Good luck for you 45 minute run against mephisto focusing on surviving while doing scratch to him.
Youll have to go… whats the build they intended to nerf again… apoc ? Or lunatic. Yeah, so mucj nerf to the popular build to get back to… the popular build to finish the season.
I understand you like blizzard and the casino style they want to put on us and having build stuck at t10 but thats not everyone’s case.
Ps: im using only valloch but valloch is 35 dominance to get its buff from launching the game. Just started a pit after relaunching the game, 3 blue elite in front of me, cant do damage because i cant cast valloch twice in a row, die. If you dont see the problem of being forced to use endurant faith, and cant imagine dying, i guess you dont aim to pit/tower push. Dying is part of the game and its not darksouls, and none other class literraly ask you to go in the wilds to throw spells in order to get your damage and not getting one tap every time you want to start an activity
As I have said Multiple times. You do not know how the Math works.
You, like too many others, think losing 700% (+) damage is a lot when its relative….
If you have +1400%(+) damage, then lose +700(+), then your damage base went down by “50%”
Heir of Perdition was stupid good. It was way better than any other Helm by a wide margin. That is bad itemization design and needed to be fixed. Blizzard messed up on several things like this, as well as allowing builds to reach max Pit tier first season. That should never have been their design. Had they properly tuned to Pit Tier ~130 before release, you wouldn’t be complaining. Its fair to criticize them. But its not a “Warlock” issue.
Overpower nerf is responsible for 2-3 tiers. I would concede that other general nerfs are another few. This was intended.
Based on Leaderboards, they still need to reduce damage from 2-3 classes. Then, each successive season should buff everyone. Again, Blizzard messed up their tuning.
Its not an issue of me liking Blizzard. Its an issue of objectivity without melodramatic exaggeration.
My Command Valloch costs 16 dominance. I generate 1.5 dominance per second. Could improve that by switching a Paragon Board. That is a Command Valloch every 10 seconds. Apparently your game version is different.
No, I do not aim to Pit/Tower push, though I wouldn’t rule it out. I lost interest in that sort of thing after the first 2-3 “Eras” of D3 where i was ~12 on Wizard leaderboard. In other words, been there done that.
Yeah well i dont have anything to tell you since you are persuaded that you know how it works but cant explain how i went from 4t dmg to 150b.
700% of overpower damage is not 50% of overall damage, its 700% less on my additional damage and however you turn it out its not 50%.
I litteraly did the test on live s13, PTR, s14 live and im telling you the changes to warlock made me lose 30 tier of pit and its a fact, however a fact you dont want to hear.
IG and on patch note valloch cost 25 dominance, you may reduce it with one of your set or aspects, idk, but its not what it is.
So in your world warlock is a fine class, and the game works well, 700% is 50% and OP nerf 2-3 pit tier, valloch is 16 dominance, so im leaving you there cause thats so many wrong fact that its pointless to keep talking.
Edit : a 30 level loss comparing to PTR while replacing all uniques with their mythics version and the 30% on each aspect it gives. On live the same build without mythics would be a lot more than 30 pit level loss, now its compensate with some of the buffed stuff, but i will never reach the same level because of the nerf to overpower and valloch in general. Now if you want to believe heir is 28 pit tier loss and overpower is only 2 be my guest.
If you dropped 30 Pit tiers, then you, your build, and your itemization just plain suck.
My tooltip says 16 dominance cost for Valloch in game. And I can cast it immediately anytime i die. What you describe for you, is a “You” problem. But since you can’t fix “You,” you come complain about Warlock itself.
Bro you make no sense anymore, if a build was doing 125 and now is doing 90, its not that the build suck, its that the nerf killed it.
You stated yourself that build should have been tuned for pit 130 but now a build doing 130 at some point sucks. Sure man. And you stated that youre not clearing 95 yet, so lets see when you realize your build doesnt have the ceiling to go above 110.
You probably use the horazon set and dont know how it works and that it gives a valloch reduction cost, its not a me problem actually its exactly the opposite. You have a way to reduce its cost and believe its normal. Its not, the normal valloch update makes it 25. Not everybody will equipped your stuff to play the game and the game shouldnt be balance around Zarn mighty build.
The issue is not the nerf. It is dps which this build is not. when pushing into higher pits this build falls flat because it takes time up to ramp the next cast. while all other builds do nonstop damage. which gives them more survivability, the Apoc is left waiting time till it ramps up to thar 100. Apoc itself needs to be buffed. the time it takes you to cast it 2x the other builds already done 40x to 100x your damage. When you cast Apoc and it hits for 10t that is it till the next cast. Other builds hitting the same damage numbers do so with ABSOLUTELY no break in casting times that is huge gap and difference. The longer you are trying to clear the more chances you have of dying. The build solely relies on Apoc and its only doing a 1 shot damage equal to other builds. It is supposed to do massive 1x damage It is not enough right now.
By the way, do you know whether the summon rate of Command Fallen’s Meat Shields, which scales with the character’s attack speed, is based on the weapon’s attack speed or something else?
Because when I use a one-handed weapon versus a two-handed weapon—especially a two-handed mace—the displayed summon interval is significantly different.
Can’t say for certain, but it sounds like the summon rate uses cast rate mechanics and not attack speed.
Casts per second scales with weapon speed based on animation frame breakpoint rules. You will need to look up the breakpoints for weapon speeds as you likely observed pushing past one to see a spike in discernible summon rate.
I just recall that ~1.55 weapon speed is ~2.5 casts per second and ~1.95 APS is ~3 CPS.
Quite strong? Lock is a C tier class. Period. Not a single build better than C tier. So no, no nerfs were needed. Guess what happens when you nerf a weak class? It gets weaker. Remember this is the shiny new thing. At least they won’t have to hear the qq about how broken OP it is because it’s definitely not that.
my eyes rolled so far it hurt
Who decides “tier?” Every list is arbitrary and subjective. What nonsense.
You are so active and spreading so many BS takes here, on the warlock forum of all things, its sad you are so delusional and active defending blizzard awaful designs for the class if you like it so much.
Its C tier by many people’s standard because its slow, clunky, requires buildup on many builds, and have a low ceiling while other classes have one button or no button destroy all content build options and things in between that goes fast and doesnt require build up etc.
That doesnt mean we cant like the class style and potential.
You’re not doing the class and any of the warlock enjoyers any favor.
And there is another eye roll comment.
I don’t “spread” anything. I reject other people spreading complaints they express as some axiomatic truth.
I hardly defend Blizzard.
By many people’s standards, the class is fun and more than sufficient. You seem to be under a “delusion” that you are the arbiter of the righteous “standard” of truth. You don’t seem to understand what subjectivity means.
I get that you think the ceiling is low. You seem to think everyone does or should care about that. I don’t care if Warlock cannot do as high of a Pit tier. If I want to do higher, I can level up another class and do higher Pits in a couple hours. What does that get me? Am I supposed to feel better in some way?
There is no non pit content my Blazing Scream build cannot clear. If I should want to “compete” in Pits, I can…against other Warlocks. Why would I care what another class does? Your perspective on these things is silly. But you are not alone in your silliness, so you think its anything but…give yourself another decade of perspective I suppose.
I’m not doing Warlock enjoyers a favor you say….that’s ironic as it seems I’m one of the few that actually enjoys it.
You amuse me.