So, a couple of questions here.
1 - What is the maximum level that you can get Frenzy to with all allowable skill tree dumps, item contributions with max perfect masterworking, etc?
2 - Is it actually worth dumping this much into a basic skill?
3 - I started with a Thorns/Bash build from maxroll but seem to somehow have switched it over to a Thorns/Frenzy build (which seems to work pretty well without having “the right or best gear” and no Uber Uniques so far) but it still doesn’t get quite where I want it to be… i haha a feeling that with the right little tweaks and gear it could be a really great build though. Has anyone else done something similar (and please don’t mention things like the Frenzy/Leap/Earthquake variant on maxroll as that just doesn’t work for my play style). Any thoughts and info help as I’m kinda morphing it into a homebrew of sorts.
Thanks!
Frenzy needs damage multipliers to make it compete with other Basic Skills. As-is, Bash and Flay are light years beyond Frenzy as your main damage source, and Lunging will always be the better choice, despite being able to stack more ranks of Frenzy.
+9 is the base on a GA Battle Trance, so I think you can get it to +16 if you hit a triple on it, bringing your max total to +32 or so if you have Shako and +7 Frenzy pants. The new sword can give you a few extra, I believe. S5 will be the best season for Frenzy yet, but every other Basic has an additional multiplier, so it’s the least damage out of all of them.
There’s also no AOE from the skill itself, so that hurts too. I have a build in mind that will still work well if they don’t change anything. I’m hoping that they change Battle Trance to at least add multiplicative damage and movement speed per Frenzy stack, as it should’ve from the jump, then it’ll be dope.
If we can get some sort of splash damage somehow, it’ll be where it needs to be.
Bash Cleave Weapon Temper needs to go away and be replaced with +Basic Damage Temper. The damage value should be the same as what the (pre-nerf) version of Bash Weapon Temper.
Paingorgers for Barbarian should change to give ALL Basic Skills a Cleave and would change from Non-Basic Skills Marking a target. This would mean Basic Skill Cleaves would snapshot properly and Flay’s Direct Damage, Bleed DoT, and Enhancements would apply for every enemy hit by a Cleave.
Brawler’s Aspect → Enemies damaged by Kick, Charge, Leap or Basic Attacks will explode if they are killed within the next 2 seconds, dealing X damage to surrounding enemies.
This makes your Basic Attacks into an AoE past Cleave while providing a synergy with Brawling Attacks. These explosions would act like the current Holy Bolt Elixir.
On the PTR, the nerfs to Bash Cleave mean Frenzy (assuming you have the new sword and a good RMO) actually still over take Bash for pure bosskilling/Single target damage, despite not having any damage tempers. Bash is still better for AoE obviously, but Frenzy honestly has a real shot at rising as a niche build. Hell it might end up better then Bash regardless because Paingorgers still gives Frenzy decent enough AoE to clear the Pit Mobs well enough.
If you max the attack speed on Bash, Frenzy has no advantage damage-wise.
Bash will still outperform Frenzy since Frenzy specifically has no damage support. It is quite easy to get to cap IAS which is the only advantage Frenzy has. Let’s not forget either that Bash benefits from Heavy Handed, Wallop, Concussion, and Bruteforce. Unless you are going to be a Mace for your 1H, Wallop does not apply to Frenzy.
Paingorgers marking enemies on non-basic damage does a ton more damage with Bash than it does Frenzy since Frenzy Base Damage is so low. Attack Speed doesn’t matter for Paingorgers and you end up losing DPS trying to actively apply marks on top of Thorns.
Frenzy’s only Temper support is Frenzy and Berserk Duration. That is great as Utility but should NOT be a Weapon Temper. In order for Frenzy to outpace or be on par with even a nerfed Bash Cleave you would need a Frenzy Temper that adds multiplicative damage or does natural AoE damage.
The Bash Cleave temper should be Basic Attacks Cleave, or they should make a separate Basic Attack Manual with options for all 4 attacks.
Either way, Frenzy needs its own multipliers. It’s the only Basic that doesn’t. Lunging has a 30x built in vs healthy.
Frenzy should also have some type of Vulnerable application in the Enhanced Frenzy. They should probably even out the Lucky Hit, too, as all the other ones have 50% to Frenzy’s 33%.
Frenzy gets a Multiplier Bash can’t use anymore, RMO (can’t equip 2 swords and use 1H Bash). High Fury builds in general are going to be really strong because of that new Necklace Unique, Locran’s Talisman, which is gonna synergize with RMO really well.
Yes, but it still doesn’t compare to the multipliers available to Bash at the moment. It really depends on how they change/improve Ramaladni’s, but as-is, Bash is a lot more damage.
400 fury = 160% damage from Ramaladni’s. That’s equivalent to 2x 60% and 1x 40% Bash tempers, which are easily attainable. Now factor in how using Ramaladni’s loses an aspect, strength, crit damage, Wallop, Heavy Handed, and no second temper. That’s a fat chunk of discrepancies. Even if you DW Bash, you can use a mace with Wallop, or an axe with Cleaver. Frenzy w/Ramaladni’s can’t do either. Bash can still stack fury for the amulet, so Frenzy doesn’t have an advantage there. Bash also has higher base damage, so you start off at lower damage with Frenzy.
The biggest deciding factors will be the changes to Ramaladni’s and Battle Trance.
Trust me, brother, I want Frenzy to be viable more than anyone. I’ll be playing Frenzy either way, but I know it’ll be inferior unless they add a multiplier and some AOE.
Basic skills should by default hit more than one monster. Blizzard’s infinite wisdom made Basic skills single target only for some odd reason.
It is a sliding scale issue that we are seeing now. Blizzard buffs Basic Skills to make them viable and hit multiple enemies, Core Skills fall behind. Blizzard tries to balance it by making Shard make Basic Skills cost Fury, but all this does is buff Basic Skills more, especially with the new Uniques.
The entire premise of Basic vs Core vs Brawling vs Weapon Mastery vs Ultimate Skills is flawed. It is going to take a full rework to make everything viable and balanced. They can start by changing the Skill Tree hierarchy letting you invest points as needed and not have requirements.
The skill tree thing might be something we see in the expansion.
I really think they need to tone down the numbers already. When endgame bosses have trillions of life, and are unbeatable, all other content becomes trivial.
Every skill should be able to reach the same power level with the proper investment. Ultimates are grossly underperforming. So many issues, but I love that Basics are serious business.
Blizzard is trying so I’ll give them that. It now needs some number tuning and other added interactions for balance. Being resource dependent just to deal damage was a big flaw. Though by this point every class has means for infinite resources so it doesn’t matter anymore.