Can anyone share their experiences with Fist of Fate with either of these builds and what your ring / aspect setup is?
Here is some early feedback from my end comparing FoF vs Legendary Gloves. My FoF has GA on AS, both Lucky hits, and 295 special damage, and my ring setup was starless and a gold ring with GA on attack speed and crit; stormswell aspect:
With FoF, I was able to stagger the boss maybe 11+ times against pit boss, though I really wasn’t counting. It seemed like 50% of the time she was staggered. I feel like FoF does a lot better against bosses. That aside, I feel like regular gloves with GA on Crit and Attack speed with Frozen Orbit aspect outperform mobs in the same Pit.
My LS cooldown ain’t great: around 9.6 seconds. One other observation is that Im not generating as much conjurations with FoF due to lack of Frozen Orbit aspect.
Ive seen someone else with a FoF drop starless and have two gold rings, though I feel if I went in that direction, Id have to get Unleash on my paragon board. Not to mention get a better winterglass.
I guess my recommendation is to look up the builds.
-FO/LS has builds out there based on lucky hit that use Fists of Fate (GoldFarmingGuide comes to mind. He has both versions.)
-FO/LS has builds out there NOT using fists of fate and maxing lucky hit (most of them).
One of my sorcs this season is FO/LS and 
Lil playstyle change which is a bit enticing but Frozen Orb/Lightning Spear is what it is. Not much point in fine tuning a completely top build, in my opinion. I stopped bothering to min/max the gear after a while. Why bother? It achieved everything I wanted and tons more. So started playing with other toys.
Yes. This is where im at. FoF is a new toy that has some interesting tricks. Im a little bored of the vanilla LS / Fo builds. Do you have a link to the FoF build youre referring to?
Post is more about getting other folks’ personal experience over a template.
Cheers
I will test later when I get home. Btw my LS Sorc has 7 second CD. In T8 it’s even faster. This is with 2 MW on Shako and 2 MW on Tal Rasha. I have a perfect 3 MW but didn’t bother using them on this toon lol.
Its weird I saw this today, and did some ice beast runs to get a FOF or a better Esu. I would up getting a 3GA FOF in AS, LHC, and apply Random (of course not CC heh). Unfortunately, I only got a 205% roll with it as well. But I’m going to test it to see how it performs.
Its going to replace a Storm swell gold that had 1 GA CC, int, and CD. We’ll see. Im running a 1 GA CC gold ring and Starless Skies. It feels like it performs better than my tal rasha but who knows.
Btw when you guys are testing FoF, try unequipping some of your gear and reequil it. Test it in dummy area to see if there’s a potential bug in the dmg.
With Barb there’s a bug with FoF and the sword Ramaladin. You have to remove and put back the sword in every instance to see the damage.
This obviously won’t work in Pit.
FoF : somehow got triple crits masterworking on critical hit chance.
that enough for me to get full crit chance with Esu in battle.
other ring : crit chance, crit damage, crit damage again, lightning spear cooldown.
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frozen orbit aspect is a must. otherwise FO exploded 1 time to get 0.x sec cdr on lightning spear is not helping at all.
gonna get the frozen orbit aspect imprinted, then you will notice even 0.2 sec cdr on winterglass is way better than 0.1 sec. of course your aim should get a 0.3 and masterwork it to 0.5 sec minimum to enjoy lightning spear build.
Yah. But to use Frozen Orbit aspect means you drop Stormswell. And losing stormswell means you lose a lot of bugged damage.
Im at a place now where i dont think FoF is good for either FO or LS. I mean, it is fun, but it just isnt better without the three mandatory aspects: splintering, Frozen orbit, and stormswell. Next season when they fix the stormswell bug, perhape we can drop stormswell but by then this build will no longer be S tier anyway.
There is an interesting thread on Reddit currently where someone was testing a 4GA FoF.
Their observation was that they had about 10-15 more conjurations with FoF but damage was 100m on FoF vs 170m on Stormswell.
And so despite the lower conjuration mastery stacks they were still doing more damage with Stormswell in its current iteration.
They also observed that they got to max conjuration stacks much faster than before.
I think one can conclude based on this testing that once stormswell goes back to normal, a GA lucky hit Fist of Fate will perform well to keep the build competitive but not as well as our current state.
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I’m not sure about the FOF yet. Like I mentioned above I somehow got a 3GA FOF that I’ve been experimenting with. To do so, I did have to drop storm swell.
Here’s the interesting part: My lucky chance is now over 100% and the chance to apply a random crowd control from the gloves is over 100% as well; so every hit with any spell I’m supposedly applying a CC, which triggers control glyph and other positives like stun, freeze, etc. Since its over 100% I can also take points out of precision magic and put it into something else, as I dont think there is a benefit to having over 100% LHC.
Can you share the link to this one? And or build?
https://www.reddit.com/r/D4Sorceress/comments/1f1x278/fist_of_fate_4_ga_or_2_ga_legendary_gloves_need/
Then Hodja’s reply pasted here for convenience:
Ok here’s how I would decide if this were my gear. You haven’t mentioned your conjuration mastery skill level, I’m going to assume +7 on the amulet, so 10 skill levels.
- Your crit is maxed (and in fact you have +20% more crit than you need if your barefoot base crit is +65% - only need 45% base crit with perfect esu aspect). The difference in crit chance for these two gloves is redundant.
- Your attack speed with FoF is not hitting the 89.3% breakpoint, so the difference between these two gloves for attack speed is redundant.
- Scenario A: You say your crits with the storm swell gloves on is 170m vs 100m. So the stormswell gloves give you +70% dmg basically
- Scenario B: You say 64 stacks max for FoF, and 55 stacks max for stormswell. Let’s compare the dmg improvement below:
- 64 stacks is say 64 lightning spears, and 55 is 55.
- Conjuration mastery from 64 is 1+64100.01 = 7.40 (the +1 at the front is just your base dmg)
- Conjuration mastery from 55 is 1+55100.01 = 6.50
- So the dmg boost you get from more stacks is: 64/55 * 7.4/6.4 = 1.32 = +32%
Combining Scenario A and B:
- Stormswell gloves do 1.7x more dmg per hit
- Stormswll gloves lose 1.32x in DPS
- You expect a 1.7/1.32 = 1.29 = +29% dps gain using stormswell
Therefore: Stormswell gloves better.
This is only looking at “peak power” i.e. 65-55 stacks, based on the conditions you mention. If in “normal content” your stacks are roughly equivalent - then definitely stormswell gloves.
You can repeat the analysis in this way for other situations.
I think someone did some testing in s4 and determined that there is no cap on lucky hit. And the tool tip speaks to this too. And with the high GAs on lucky hit, i think wed be over 100%.
Let me know what your testing shows as i could reallocate Precision points otherwise if i get back to using FOF. My max conjurations were less with FoF so i stopped testing. Though i 100% feel FoF is better for bossing due to ability to stagger frequently
I’m going to ask a really dumb question: even if you could go over 100% on LHC, why would you want to? For that particular mechanic I cant see a reason to go over 100.
With FOF I have no problem getting to about 14-17 conjurations (in t7 or t8 hordes). I DO have hydra in my skill bar instead of fire shield though. The other thing I should mention is I didnt have AS on my current gloves, just cant find a good pair with that on it.
There is no cap to LHC.
Andy rogue for example needs to be at approx 200% LHC to reliably proc the poison nova once per cast.
For reference, most high end FO/LS builds are trying to get to 50-60 conjuration mastery stacks. After the tweaks (disclosed by developers but no longer in tool tips) to how Winterglass works, the only way to reliably get above 55 is with FoF gloves now.
Edit: For the original question, if speed farming, FoF could be more optimal due to the ‘acceleration’ back to an optimal 15 conjuration mastery stacks. This shaves off approximately 2-3 seconds depending on attack speed totals.
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I dont want to hijack this thread but I dont understand why any class would want 200% LHC…it doesnt make logical sense to me…
55 stacks is insane. I have a .04 winterglass and my fingers/hand hurts when I get to 20 stacks…crazy!!
nevermind about LH…maxroll explained it to me
I have a .2 cooldown but i also have a lot of attack speed at 75% standing still in town. So i can get up to 20 conjurations with 9% LS cooldown relatively easily.
I wish i could have .4 cooldown
In direct damage lucky hit, to get a base effect lucky hit that is something less than 1, e.g. 25% to guarantee a effect, you need a LHC multiplier greater than 1. Depending on the effect, likely you will need somewhere between 150-200% lucky hit chance to guarantee the effect per cast.
Rogue is a luck hit based class and cares a lot about lucky hit chance. And the only item that can currently reliably push lucky hit chance past 100% is of course a GA Fist of Fate.
Sorry my interpretation of LH was wrong, I read about it on maxroll and now completely understand. That is a really good thread on Gold gloves vs FOF. I think the gold gloves with SS work out better, as shown in your math above for 95% of people.
But what do the people like me who cant find AS on gloves do heh? I think once you have GA on CC and AS its a no brainer, but where does it land for the RNG challenged?
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