[Druid] Feedback Compilation Thread

Let me preface this by saying that the Druid skill tree is very well designed, and a massive upgrade over S12. Druids are no longer crippled by passives, forced form changing, and annoying poisoning requirements. Everything is in place for any build to potentially shine, as long as some tweaks are made here and there. And that is what this thread is about:

Overarching Issues

Resolve stacking and Might of the Ursine

  • Mythic Might of the Ursine gives 17%(x) increased damage per Resolve you have in season 14, and you are able to get up to 30 stacks. This means that this single item gives druids 510%(x) increased damage while in Werebear form, and means that any skill which can be switched to Werebear, is. If this ring was capped, and the lost power (WHICH DRUIDS NEED TO COMPETE IN THE END-GAME) was distributed throughout the whole class, then Druids would be in a much, much better place.

Willpower

  • Willpower is a good place to distribute some of this power, as it is a bit lacking since the loss of Overpower damage. Increased healing is not exactly a good stat in the end-game, where you are either alive or one-shot, especially when Druids have no innate way to convert this into damage reduction and they currently survive by spamming Barrier (Que rune reliance…). Recommended change is increasing Willpower’s skill damage bonus, and adding cooldown reduction or Lucky Hit Chance to it.

Poison

  • Poison builds lack support, and any hope for a Poison Creeper build was just completely killed with the Companion nerfs. Rabies is in a much better place, but relies on Resolve stacking as bear. Poison/physical hybrids also do not work, which means Mark of the Old Wolf and Lacerate Toxin Outburst are useless. This issue is compounded by the fact that Werewolf builds revolve around Critical Strike Chance, while poisoning gains absolutely nothing from it. It certain items, Side Upgrades or Variants changed the physical damage into poison and added some form of critical chance and strike scaling to poisoning (like the Rabies Variant, Malaise, but properly integrated and scaled), then we would be able to create amazing hybrid builds (and use that interesting ring), by allowing the use of Bane, Keeper and Tracker paragon glyphs, and the Lust for Carnage legendary node.

Werewolf Physical (and Ravens)

  • There is a lack of support and synergies for pure physical damage Werewolf builds (Lacerate, Shred without Storm Shred, Werewolf Maul without Stone Fists), and for Ravens without the Storm upgrade (Ravens are a dead build, but we can dream…). Inner Beast, a currently useless legendary Paragon node, and buffing Hurricane’s horrendous damage, is a good starting point in fixing this (and ending the reliance 95% of all Druid builds have on Lightning Storm toggle…).

Human

  • Human builds are currently quite weak, and need a lot of help to catch up. Buffing the Human passive bonuses (damage to distant enemies is limiting) and giving Greenwalker’s Signet a 50% chance to proc would be a good start to addressing this. Greatly increased Paragon support is also needed.

Versatile

  • This tag is amazing, allowing you to retain forms while casting these skills. However, this tag still needs to be added to some aspects, and paragon nodes and glyphs.

Set Balance

  • Werewolf set needs much longer up-time when you cannot kill anything, or a much quicker activation, and to give a large general damage bonus with the 2 piece, instead of just to the target you smell. It also shares the same bug with Shred, only much more prevalent because of the variety of skills, where you can fall under the map when teleport dashing, forcing you to either have to town portal or logout completely.
  • Companion set is now extremely weak (it was already sub-optimal) due to the Shepherd’s Aspect nerf, as most of its damage came from its interaction with this aspect. It needs to be given damage multipliers, otherwise it will always be replaced by the Earth and Storm sets.

Useless Skill Variants

  • Some skills have useless Variants, or one which dominates (Shred, Grizzly Rage, Boulder, Rabies, and Petrify, mainly).

Tectonic Spikes and Dancing Bolts

  • Any Variant which grants Dancing Bolts to a skill, should turn that skill into Lightning Damage, so that you can scale both Dancing Bolts and the skill at the same time with Lightning multipliers, like Electrocution’s legendary bonus (this means Wind Shear and Hurricane’s Variants). Tectonic Spikes need to be more reliable (increasing the range on Earthen Bulwark’s would help greatly), do more damage outside of resolve stacking, and have more integrated ways to boost their damage.

Resource Generation

  • Every build uses Tibault’s except for Companions (which uses its own unique pants) because Druid’s resource regeneration was hit very hard with with the latest expansion and the loss of tempers. In fact, these pants are pretty much the most critical unique in the game, with builds like Boulder being unable to function without them due to the extreme resource cost (though Mjolnic may make a comeback in season 14). This also means that Druids have to always take the Que rune to proc their own Earthen Bulwark constantly, which is also where most of Druid’s survivability comes from. Some more resource regeneration and cost reduction spread throughout the Druid skills would be greatly appreciated.

Reliance on Lightning Storm: Hero of the Storm

  • Lightning Storm toggle is currently used to make targets Vulnerable, proc Ancestral Guidance, reduce cooldowns through Aspect of the Orange Herald, and reduce Ultimate cooldowns with Calm Before the Storm (one of only a few skills which actually does this properly). It cannot be intended that this ability is tacked onto 95% of Druid builds, so some changes would be appreciated: at least one non-storm way to apply Vulnerable; removing the snapshot on Lightning Storm attack speed, so we can freely turn it on and off without damage loss; and allowing more skills to properly interact with Calm Before the Storm, e.g Hurricane and Boulder.

Shapeshifting

  • While Druids hate being forced to shapeshift for 3 second buffs and to stack something 50 times, shapeshifting into different forms to use actual meaningful and damaging skills (your original concept for the Druid), is well liked. Being able to Wolf Trample into a group of enemies, Pulverise them, then trample away and Human Lightning Storm them is incredibly fun, but just in no way viable even for torment 12. If you wanted to add this as an option, for this to work, the base form bonuses would need to be buffed and made to gel better (close and distance modifiers removed), the shifting Aspects buffed, Poise and Shapeshifter glyphs revamped and buffed, and Inner Beast legendary paragon node buffed for modern gameplay. Finally, a new set would have to be added which is based on shifting, or maybe poisoning, so that the disparate attacks and damage can be tied together. Creating a poison set would probably be the best choice, as this would also help with adding a poisoning build for Druids. Alternatively, the Mythic Seal of the Golden Epiphany could be buffed to support non-set builds.

Skills

Basic

  • Being able to turn Greatstaff of the Crone or Shard of Verathiel into a unique charm would bring Claw a lot closer to being a fully viable top end-game build. Maul is surprisingly good for leveling, but lacks the speed, damage and range for end-game. All basic builds rely on resolve stacking and Might of the Ursine for late-game damage.

Core

  • Shred has only ONE viable Variant: Storm Shred. Critical Shred appears to be unfinished, and Roundhouse not only adds less damage than Storm Shred, but lacks the scaling and itemisation benefits gaining the Storm tag gives. Pure Physical Werewolf builds are just not supported enough, and cannot be used properly in conjugation with other skills, such as the toggled Lightning Storm, due to the damage type differences and lack of Paragon support.
  • Pulverise lacks damage and/or attack speed to compete with the other Earth builds. Many people also miss the distance shockwave which Pulverise had, and the unique noises it made, especially when you overpowered and roared (the new Shockwave Variant looks insane when using Stoneworker’s Apect, though. So maybe you could add the old shockwave to one of the other Variants, or rename them). The Damage Bonus Side Upgrade is also flawed, because it removes the overpower needed to power the best Earth ring Druid’s have (Fractured Runestone).
  • The Stoneburst Variant, Epicenter, is completely eclipsed by Rumbling Stones. Slow is also pointless when the Earth set also slows, and then stuns. Rumbling Stones does not proc the Igni rune, unless you restart your channeling.
  • Tornado’s unique weapon, Fleshrender, is a bit finicky, does not play nice with all Tornado Variants, and needs a damage buff which applies to all Tornado damage. It is currently not used by Tornado builds.
  • Landslide’s lucky hit chance is bugged with the Continental Shift Variant, barely activating. The Earthbreaker ring should give Landslide the Tectonic Spikes tag, so that Landslide can benefit from Stoneworker’s Aspect.

Defensive

  • Cyclone Armour is not a damage skill, and its Side Upgrades and Variants should reflect that. If you want it to be a damage skill, then it would probably need to do 50 times its current damage. Recommend this node is changed into a group share ability, like the old aspect.
  • Earthen Bulwark has a Side Upgrade which can easily put you over 100% barrier, completely wasting most of its power. Earthen Shrapnel also does not trigger enough to make the investment worthwhile, and should be changed to trigger move often. Perhaps if it fired when gaining and losing Earthen Bulwark, or if it continuously triggered while it was up (the unique boots could do this).
  • Blood Howl’s base cooldown is very long, making it pretty much impossible to use outside of Malefic Crescent spam, due to the nature of game being full heath or dead, the short Variant duration. Hungering Howl, is also useless because of the same healing problem, while Berserking Howl does not add enough poisoning damage to be worth it (it could be amazing in a poisoning hybrid build with buffs).

Wrath

  • Hurricane does negligible damage even with using Resolve stacking, and Hunter’s Zenith is extremely weak. Not only does the ring deal terrible damage, but it completely goes against the purpose of Hurricane, which is to run around with it activated. Hurricane will miss a lot as you move, and having a 10 second timer where you need to be in the optimal place is just horrible. Hurricane’s lucky hit chance is also bugged, or is set to an extremely low value where it might as well not exist.
  • Rabies has a single viable Variant, Superinfection. Its ridiculously large multiplier is able to somewhat counter the poor poison scaling, though even this is carried by the Ursine ring, and is not end-game competitive. The Variant Malaise could become a great hybrid skill, though, with some work. Rabies’ unique boots also need to be changed to work on single targets, like bosses.
  • Trample needs its cooldown reduced and damage massively increased, and the Stun Side Upgrade (thank you for listening to our feedback and adding this) not competing with cooldown reduction, so that we can use it. It also needs to not be so heavily reliant on the Earth Variant.
  • Boulder has only one path you can take: Slow is useless with the Earth set; 35% critical strike chance easily beats an 80% chance to do nothing (especially if Boulder retained its cooldown); and Dolmen’s Will is the only consistent damage worth the investment. If Greenwalker’s Signet was buffed to 50%, then human builds could be dropping Boulders on everything, as long as the other Variants were buffed.

Companion

  • The massive nerfs to Wolf Companion builds have basically erased Poison Creeper and Ravens from the game. Both abilities need their base damage and scaling drastically increased, base cooldown reduced, and Poison Creeper should be given the Nature Magic tag so it can properly interact with the Paragon board and the Druid Spirit Boons. Cooldown reduction, mainly Aspect of the Wildrage, should also be able to bring all Companion cooldowns down to 0 seconds, so that they are spammable. Both unique pants (why do Ravens and Wolves share the same unique slot?) need to be unique charm options.

Ultimate

  • Grizzly Rage, once again, dominates. Even though it is bugged (Side Upgrade ‘Cooldown Reduction’ does not work), has hilariously bad Side Upgrades (3 seconds of Unstoppable on a 120 second cooldown, and fortify when half the skills in the game already give it), gains pretty much nothing with extra skill investment, and has a bad joke of Variant (Immunity), Cornered Beast is just that good. If Cornered beast was nerfed, and the power distributed to other parts of the Druid, then Cataclysm would be able to compete. Then the ability to refresh Grizzly Rage could be added, instead of having to wait for it to fall off.
  • Cataclysm is the most balanced Ultimate, able to use both the Earth and Storm sets for different playstyles. Terrible Twisters are indeed terrible, though, and the Side Upgrade Slow will never, ever be picked, just like all the other slow upgrades which compete with critical buffs. There is a bug with Werewolf form node not adding the Shapeshifter tag, which is very annoying for itemisation and scaling, particularly with regards to Set item stats.
  • Lacerate is mediocre due to it being a pure physical Werewolf skill, and thus relying on the extremely weak Werewolf set and poor paragon and item scaling. It also suffers from a complete lack of synergies with other Druid skills, even though one its Variants is supposed to synergise with poison (and Hunter Killer even gave Lacerate the Poison tag before this PTR removed it!). Toxin Outburst is terrible, though, much, much weaker than the other two Variants, and relies on scaling a completely different damage type, one which also lacks support. Maybe if Mark of the Old Wolf was better or somehow allowed poison and physical to completely synergise, and the Variant was massively buffed, then this playstyle would work. Also, the new art looks really weird.
  • Petrify is used only in instances of easy content, because it has two useless Variants (only Greater Petrify is good), and because the Earth Set (which it oddly does not synergise with at all) does its job a million times better. Similar to Grizzly Rage, it also gains too ittle from extra skill point investment (a small amount of multiplicative crit damage - the tooltip is apparently wrong about it being additive), which appears to be the result of wanting the Petrify rune to have very limited power. The above issues could be solved by having additional skill points scale it much higher, while revamping the bad Variants and having Petrify fully interact and synergise with both the Earth set and The Basilisk (it already interacts with the rune). The old Airidah’s ring massive area pull could be an option for buffing a Variant.

Spirit Boons

  • Unless Avian Wrath is its own, completely separate multiplier, it has been outscaled (gloves gives 5 times this amount). Perhaps it should be changed to something more interesting.
  • Pack Leader - Poison Creeper does not critically strike, so cannot trigger it since it lost the landslide aspect (Carnivorous is not a viable damage option, even when free). Adding a poisoning part would be nice.
  • Bolster is just odd and does not work half the time. It also competes with a mandatory Companion boon, a near-mandatory Ultimate boon, and resource generation.
  • Druids are far too reliant on Calm Before the Storm for ultimate up-time, which means they have to use abilities which can actually proc it in every build (mainly Lightning Storm Hero of the Storm, which is also used to keep Vulnerability up). Upping the lucky hit rate, fixing abilities like Tornado to actually proc it more than once, and giving Druids another option would help greatly with variety.

Paragon

  • Inner Beast legendary node is completely outdated, and not even used by the one Druid who still spams form changes. Having zero increased damage makes it a non-starter.
  • Heightened Malice legendary node needs a buff to ~50%/20%, or to be changed to something different, as it is now become just an inferior version of Constricting Tendrils.
  • Survival Instincts legendary node has not been properly reworked for the Overpower changes, and still has a separate, non-working, Overpower multiplier.

More good stuff here, from Kardiophylax:

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I’m fairly certain Rabies is supposed to couple with Hunter Killer Lacerate. That node is both Physical and Poison damage on Lacerate. You wouldn’t know that, though, because it isn’t tagged until AFTER you select the node.

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This is the kind of post that will most likely be read by someone at Blizzard. Good post.

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Looks like they removed that on the PTR…

Damn, it might have made for an interesting build, though the problems of critical strikes and scaling would have still existed.

Will add it now!

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Yet did nothing to Toxin Outburst? Why would they do that? It was really the only thing that benefitted from the Mark of the Old Wolf ring as it stands currently. Even though it was marginal, it was something. Ffs these Devs are clueless.

“JuSt MaKe BeAr RiNg StRoNk. ThEn They’ll Be HaPpY.”

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Wow… a PTR critique that goes beyond just “everything is bad.” I can’t believe I’m actually seeing this. :smiling_face_with_tear:

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Yeah, it is weird. The largest poisoning multiplier for Werewolves being Grizzly Rage exclusive also does not help.

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​Amazing job, it clearly comes from someone who knows the game in detail. I really hope a dev reads this and pulls some good ideas from this awesome feedback.

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Great write up!

20 characters.

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The problem as I have said before in other threads, is that Human form does not have a Paragon board for it like Werewolf and Werebear does.

Human form is never going to work out unless they 1) Massively buff Fleshrender (what a pitiful Tornado bonus LOL), 2) Massively buff Greenwalker or 3) Massively buff Dirge of Airidah.

Fleshrender should be a 300% Tornado damage bonus. it’s a joke right now.

Greenwalker should be 50% I agree. Sounds good.

Dirge of Airidah should be “For each Storm skill on your skill bar, your Storm skills get +20% damage while in Human form” instead of granting its current piddly bonus and adding Spirit. the Storm set makes Spirit totally moot, so why have this ring at all?

It’s like they didn’t even sit down not :clap: ONE. :clap: SINGLE :clap: TIME. and actually try to use the Human aspects and uniques together in a build. At all.

I tried a tornado Human form build on the PTR.

Was trash. Why the HELL are they so adamantly opposed to giving us a Tornado/Wind druid build like in Diablo 2? They sure as hell made sure Barbarian got their 1 button spin-to-win whirlwind crap.

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Dirge of Airiah is pretty good, and generating spirit is essential to increasing the damage you get from the 2 piece Storm set.

Will add Tornado/Fleshrender and human paragon support now.

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It’s a terrible design decision for the set. If you want a remotely decent damage bonus from that 2-piece, you MUST wait and do NOTHING until your spirit is full, which - I’m not sure about your experience - but you need to spam abilities in this game to kill things. Druid spirit generation has always been crap, and still is. The 2 piece and 5 piece conflict with one another. “Oh you want to spam abilities? Well let’s punish you for doing that because your Spirit isn’t full. Oh but you need to spam abilities to take advantage of the extra casting of the 5 piece bonus!”

That set should give you a damage bonus based off of casting different Storm skills over and over rather than waiting until your spirit is full and casting a one-off.

I am more and more convinced that these devs don’t even play their own game.

5 whole percent to maybe cast a few more Tornadoes! FUN!

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The Storm set 2 piece takes whatever spirit you have, consumes it, and turns it into a damage boost. It does this for every single attack you make, giving a separate, independent boost each time. There is a no cap, and using it at full spirit is actually a damage loss.

It is one of the most powerful 2 piece bonuses in the game, and might even be the strongest.

And yet it’s terrible and not one single build uses it.

Sorry, but I thought your post was about the issues with the Druid, not circling the wagons for these terrible mechanics…..

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Literally any buffing they do to storm-related skills would just get passed onto wolf and bear builds. Why play a limited human form of a build when animal forms utilize these very same things better? I think human-centric Druid players should probably just give up at this point and either go play a Sorc, or accept animal forms are central to the class identity.

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I agree, regrettably. And isn’t that pathetic??? “Hey guys, buy our store skins and stuff! Oh but you’ll never see them since you’re a damn wolf or bear the entire time!”

They really just totally go against their own self interests, I STG

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I am a firm believer that a lack of skin sales is the primary driver behind them not really seeming to care about Druids. It’s a low revenue class, so they spend time and effort on classes that are not.

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That. That right there.

That’s it. If you notice, they release fewer armor sets for Druids than every other class.

Druid is the least played class in this game, hands down.

I WANT to love Diablo 4. But POE2 has a far, far FAR better Druid than this game does.

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But you were completely wrong about how the Storm 2 piece even functions…

Many builds use the 2 piece storm set. It is just completely overshadowed by the godlike 5 piece Earth set.

I am not completely wrong about anything. I don’t think you’re following the logic. I’m not trying to be combative or rude or insult you at all, so please give me a pass here.

The 2 piece set gives you a (very pitiful and minor) damage bonus for casting spells the more Spirit you have. And it consumes ALL of it, every single time. So you are punished for spamming.

Then comes the 5 piece bonus. 20% for double cast. 5% to triple cast. To ‘gamble’ and take advantage of those percentages, it’s best to spam your abilities rather than waiting and dropping a full Spirit ‘bomb’ (as granted by the 2 piece bonus). They work against each other. Who wants to run in, cast a single tornado spell (hopefully to get a double or triple cast), run back out……..then wait for full spirit, run back in, and cast it again? Nobody and I mean NOBODY wants to play that way.

Do you see my point here?

Now here comes a greater lair boss fight. Let’s use storm set. Wait for spirit to be full. Cast a single storm spell………damage is done. Rather pitiful. We wait for spirit to fill back up. Cast it again. Oh boy! We gambled and hit that 20% for a double cast! …….run out, wait for Spirit to come back, cast another.

It’s just really ridiculous,I’m sorry.

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