A big issue I have with the game is that currently, the hardest content gives the worst rewards.
- Andariel, Duriel, Harbinger: Challenging fights, especially Andariel. They have phases, tons of damage, and mechanics you need to work around.
- Lilith: The penultimate boss, difficult mechanics, phases, one shots; the whole nine yards in terms of difficulty.
- Pit 100+: Clearable by only a select few builds, challenging, and near infinite scaling
What do all these things have in common? There’s much easier alternatives that give drastically better rewards. Why run Lilith when all she’s going to give you is a Mother’s Embrace? Why do pit 100 when running pit 70s on repeat gives you more obols? Oh, to level your glyphs up to 100, well it’s not like that gives you any noticable increase in damage.
Harder content should always be more rewarding, period. If you don’t give players any incentive to run the most challenging parts of your game, no one’s going to run it.
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Depends on what you mean.
If you want to say that T4 drops more loot than T1, and therefore has a higher chance of dropping what you want, I’m ok with that.
If you want to say that T4 or pinnacle bosses drop loot exclusive to that level, then it’s a big no for me. That’s elitism, and why I quit WoW.
Yeah, I kinda do want T4 Lilith to drop something exclusive, not going to lie. Otherwise there’s no point in running her.
I don’t see how that’s elitism. To me that’s just competent game design. Harder things should provide better rewards, otherwise again there’s no point in running it.
Well, that’s reasonable. But since we’re talking about Diablo 4, unfortunately it’s quite difficult to implement.
first you need to remove scaling from the game, then it’s real. In the meantime, when one build is 100,000 times stronger than the others, it is simply impossible to do this.
Yeah the game needs a bit more balance when it comes to the top builds. Hopefully the upcoming patch addresses this.
Still I don’t think it’s impossible to make certain things more rewarding. I don’t even think it’s unreasonable. It makes no sense to me that they’d put all this time into creating a challenging and honestly pretty interesting fight like Lilith, but then give you no reason to run it.
That’s like giving you the choice between two classes. The marine and the ultra marine. To play the ultra marine you need to utilize rotations, cooldowns, keep in mind buff timers, and combos. But the regular marine deals twice the damage by casting one skill.
I don’t think that with scaling in the game, it’s just technically possible.
It is probably not possible to remove scaling from the game. I don’t remember the exact numbers, I’ll tell you roughly, but someone calculate that, for example, for spiritborne from season 6, 1 minute was enough to kill the boss, whereas the sorceress needed 6 or 7 years (I don’t remember exactly how long, and it doesn’t matter, the essence is clear).
Therefore, of course, I would like to see, as indicated in your first post, more rewards for greater difficulty, but this is simply unrealistic with the current mechanics.
Unfortunately, this game took too many core mechanics from d3, which, in my opinion, will never allow it to be a good ARPG. But most likely, it is simply technically impossible to change them, or it is simply impractical from the point of view of the costs.
it does. For them, not you.
What do you want her to drop? If she drops better loot, what would be the point of even farming it? The game is designed so that T1 opens up all of the content. At some point, you character is just complete. With that said, I don’t disagree. I’ve been a big advocate of giving cosmetics for this sort of thing. Make a cool, very rare cosmetic that only drops from Pit 100+, Lilith on T4, etc. It can be a status symbol for those who put in the effort, but for those who don’t, there is no gameplay that they get locked out of. That feels like a good compromise but I’ve gotten quite hard pushback on this suggestion in the past too so I don’t really know what people want anymore.
Resplendant sparks, a new good unique, special materials to make better incense/potions, she gives you mother’s blessing for 3 hours, a scroll to reset tempers (infinitely), really anything worth the effort to kill her.
oh mother’s blessing for a specific time is actually a great idea. i like that.
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I think there’s a lot that can be done with Lilith’s rewards that would give people a reason to run her without breaking the game. I’d take anything really, cause I think the fight is great. It’s one of the few skill based encounters in D4 but currently it’s pointless to run.
For better or for worse, this is the pinnacle content. Lilith on T4 is “what you do” when you’ve geared as well as you think you can be. Beating her is bragging rights. It’s the end of the end game.
In theory.
But given that it’s one rare case in the game that’s mostly a skill check instead of rewarding high progression, we come to the “or worse” part, as well as the fact that objectively harder content exists.
This doesn’t work in pretty much any game. No one really cares about another person’s achievements in game except for that person, and when beating Lilith gives you nothing but the ability to say “hey I beat Lilith”… there’s simply no point to run her.
Though that could change
What if they drop the same loot, but guaranteed higher quality? Would you consider that elitism?
So long as it’s possible to earn it otherwise, I’m fine with it. It’s exclusivity that’s the problem.
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I’m going to go ahead and call out some of the usual trash that the usual characters will drop here. Let’s get it out of the way.
“Looks like d4 isn’t for you, maybe animal crossing is more your speed.”
“Oh boo hoo, you just want everything handed to you.”
“Why do play the game if you don’t like it?”
“Should they just give you a full set of perfect gear when you start a new toon?”
I’ve missed a lot of the other usual ones but that should slow that group down a bit. You’re welcome.
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I agree with you and D4 does have some of it already. T4 gives you higher MF, XP and gold. However, if you dont pass the gear check lower difficulty will yield better rewards because of efficiency. Highest pit done in 2 min will yield the highest xp.
Now with lillith they did say they wanted her to be a pinical boss and didnt tie a rewards system to her because they didnt want casuals to feel they needed to do it. She still gives a spark tho, so its not nothing.
I disagree…
Not with the current D4 by design, and with all the aspirational talk by the devs…
Aspirational content being challenge meaning they won’t tie better rewards to it. If you want to challenge your self you go do it. That is called “Aspirational content”
If you truly want to play challenging content, you don’t need rewards - the rewards for you should be the simple fact that you enjoy doing hard content for the sake of doing hard content. Otherwise, you are just bluffing and you don’t truly enjoy doing hard content.
And nothing in D4 can be categorized as hard right now - it is just annoying and you either 1 shot the boss or boss 1 shot you. It is all just gear check until you can face tank it all in.
The fight which requires you to dodge mechanic are all terribly designed and they just feel cheap.
Sorry, but not sorry…
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“Loot Pinata” “Loot raining from the sky” and my personal favorite “What you want BiS in one day?”
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Any loot/progression discussion is really simple. Blizzard needs to make it so all drops in T4 have a significantly higher chance to roll greater affixes. As it stands now with just getting more loot, which translates to getting more crap loot, does nothing to reward getting into T4 and spending a lot of time in there.
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