Diablo IV is symbolic of what happens when developers have no direction for their game

PC General Discussion
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Watched the livestream from yesterday, and I can’t help but feel as though much of Diablo IV’s problem is that the developers are directionless right now. They don’t have a set goal for the game in mind and are instead churning out seasons because it’s what is expected of them, not because they’re actually using those seasons as ways to enrich the experience. I think this corresponds with how I feel about the developer community relationship in that much of what Blizzard does with the game is not done because they think it’s better, but because they continue to make mistakes and react to community sentiment.

I don’t want this to be perceived as me complaining that Blizzard is actually listening to player feedback, because obviously incorporating feedback is good and a critical component of making this game better in the long-term, but it’s not the only thing Blizzard should be doing. They should be taking initiative. They should have a vision for the game, and they should be compiling all of the feedback we give in tandem with that vision in order to make a better, more cohesive experience. Instead, it feels like the players are captaining the ship rather than helping steer it, which is NOT something we should want. I don’t work for Blizzard so I can’t say for certain that they don’t have a direction, but it certainly reads that way.

I felt like season 2 was a good foundation for them to build from, and now it feels like we’re back at season 1. I really hope season 4 puts a stride in this game’s core gameplay loops, because I’m really starting to lose my optimism that Blizzard can correct course on their own.

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Joe P looks like a very confident person and I’m sure he has a vision, but I don’t know what is holding him back. Maybe they didn’t give him the right tools to work with.

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The “Diablo 4 project” (Fenris) changed hands at least one time, but it could be more. It is now under Joe Shely as the Game Director with Joe Piepiora as his associate.

Usually great games are the brainchild of a single director or a single team from start to finish. But D3 shows us that someone not from the original team could certainly “fix” a game and make it better.

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Welcome to the wonderful world of live disservice games. Far too many developers are chasing the Fortnite money train, when their development teams aren’t really experienced or set up for supporting a live disservice game. It’s why so many games of this type are crashing and burning right now.

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Devs just biding time to expansion. That will be juicy but boring until then.

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Yes, its been obvious this is the case for quite some time now. The way they just seemingly make the most arbitrary of changes on the fly to the game based on player feedback, exactly as what others have said, throwing crap on the wall and seeing what sticks.

The one consistency in the beginning though that i noticed which they eventually abandoned due to massive player backlash was being on the lookout for anything and everything that made the game fun to play and instantly nerfing them to oblivion, whether skills, dungeons, items whatever. That was their focus for the first couple of months or so that they have toned down alot from. That was the roadmap(make sure you cant be efficient at consuming content) if you can even call it a roadmap.

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This is very questionable statement.

For vast majority of players D3 never became a good game.

D3 has become a game in a completely different genre, namely arcade clicker. And many of the mechanics that d3 RoS brought are absolutely incompatible with the concept of a good ARPG, but are completely taken from WoW.

By the way, it is because of these mechanics that D4 turned out so bad.

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There is no majority. Everyone has each own picture of a perfect game. If Blizz satisfies one group, opposing group would feel betrayed. It has been like this since the start.

If Blizz would captain the ship and force their objectives, more than 75% would have left.
Instead, they compromise here and there doing their best to at least keep the ball running in small steps towards the right direction.

On me honestly, if I were them, I would just go straight to what I want… Go and go further with the challenges and f the noobs. That is me. But it’s okay that Blizz is not like me.

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This is exactly how i feel. The concepts and mechanics of D3 was vastly inferior to D2 imo. What the devs did to “improve” it was just polish it add new content on top of the existing one. They didn’t actually change the core gameplay. D4 which borrowed heavily from D3 and really feels like D3 v2 has the same feel for me.

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I didn’t say that it became a good game.

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I’d +1 you but I’m all out right now, so responding because I want to chime in, but also to remind myself to +1 you later lol.

This much has been obvious since the first live stream/campfire. Problems were brought up that seemed as if they’d never thought of them before. Simple things too, not just “we need more end game content”. We had a long list of questions on these forums several months back for an upcoming livestream, and as per the norm they answered a big question that was on everyone’s mind about the itemization rework, but that was it.

I think the issue stems from a lack of leadership. Throughout the whole development process of D4 leadership was changed out multiple times. If you look at the current upper management in the game and just do a little research, you’ll see most of them started in 2018 and later. At which point they were probably just told to get the game done and sell it. There were no real plans for the future of the game, they were too concerned on completing it.

So when we see questions about QoL features, crafting, class balancing, end game content, etc. these are all after thoughts to them, some brand new as you can tell by their answers in their head they’re thinking “Oh that’s a good idea, we should put that in the game.” As if it’s some game breaking idea that hasn’t been in previous iterations. So them having no idea what the endgame goal is wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

This is how it feels from a consumer standpoint mind you, obviously who knows what’s going on over there.

See I don’t agree with this. S1 was bad, for multiple reasons. S2 was great, and S3’s only really downside is coming off of the success from S2 along with a bad seasonal mechanic and no additional end-game content, not to mention delaying gauntlets. If S3 had a different seasonal mechanic, or it was better implemented, I don’t think people would be saying this at all.

People expected better for Season 3, but with no mention of any additional end-game content, or any real meat to the game to speak of, they felt let down. I kept my expectations in check for S3, knowing that S4 would receive the Itemization rework and S3 would probably be lackluster. I’m not saying this is the fault of the player base by any means, but I feel expectations were a little high for S3.

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Don’t forget Project Hades was the first attempt at Diablo 4. It started in 2014 and was killed off in 2016 and replaced with Project Fenris, which had its own share of major issues during development. Those leads were shut down in 2019, and the project was taken on by the current leads. Joe Shelly didn’t come over until 2020.

It’s why the game is so shallow. Everyone thinks there was nine years of development, but it was more likely two to three years of development, not all of which was productive. Then the whole thing was rushed to market to make the company more attractive to Microsoft.

This is a product that they hope they can use to sell more products. There won’t be any significant improvement until they can sell everyone an expansion.

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I dont know. I would have thought that blizz had a goal and direction in place until they started bending to the will of the whiners.

The game was perfectly fine before they dropped the patch that “killed fun forever”. Leveling was difficult but attainable, classes were ok. Then they started nerfing, buffing mobs, classes, drops….then the game went to the crapper.

Least thats the way i see it.

Would be nice for blizz to just put out thte game they intended and let the chips fall where they may. But now it is all about pleasing everyone so they keep making money from the cash shop

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I don’t agree with this at all. When you attempt to appeal to everyone, then you lose mostly everyone. People will play a good game even if it’s outside of their frame of fun/expectations. Helldivers 2 is the most recent example I can give. That game defies all that is expected from live-service games. There really isn’t a defined endgame, there’s no loot system, content can get a little repetitive, and there’s a distinct lack of hand-holding to introduce mechanics and systems. Despite all of these, the game’s success is unprecedented because it does what it wants to do really well.

Monster Hunter is another game. That game took years to reach an audience in the west. It never wavered and eventually did. Now it’s Capcom’s best selling game of all time and arguably one of the most anticipated games for 2025.

People will branch outside of their comfort zones if your game is good. It’s really that simple.

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There are two kind of people playing Diablo: those who are trying to escape from every day reality with jobs and responsibilities, and people who accept and embrace work and Diablo represents a reinforcement of their beliefs that hard work leads to success.

One group hates the grind while the other embraces the grind. Diablo is trying to be inclusive towards both groups. You can do NM100 dungeons without ubers, grinding and farming is largely optional, but there is envy towards those who embrace the grind and the payoff of playing with ubers.

I would say Blizzard was correct when they said you could build your character any way you like and play the style you like. You can grind or you can not grind and still play the game. You cannot expect Blizzard to change this formula…

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confident or competent?

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Both, actually.

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Don’t agree about season 2, but the rest I have been saying since before season 1. They have no direction of their own, everything is just kneejerk reactions to whichever middle schooler is crying the loudest.

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I forgot about it. Was that the “Souls-like D4” with a 3rd person perspective gameplay?

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Exactly Diablo4 is a BALL that runs. :rofl: