Diablo 4 - most shallow arpg ever created?

By far the most concerning aspect of this game are the builds. Lets ignore the fact that this isn’t a traditional screen-clearing game. They’ve shifted away from big hordes of mobs to more lost ark-ish style of game focused on boss fights.

The builds in this game are so shallow. There are leaks of the paragon nodes as well and like typical Blizzard lack of innovation fashion, they’re following the same horrible model as WoW. Low risk design decisions that just give +dmg and +def passives. WoW does this same model now because it’s way easier to balance around. Things that completely change abilities should be in the paragon tree, similar to some uniques/legendaries.

It gets even worse in diablo 4 because of a super low number of abilities in the game that are split to pre-defined builds. Diablo 3 had huge criticism because the sets completely ruin build diversity and force you into playing very specific builds. You’ve basically done the same issue with the talent trees, but it’s even worse because the options have DRASTICALLY reduced.

Example:
If you play a fire sorc, they have so many passives around fire dmg and burning that you’ll have to focus your build nearly exclusively into fire to get benefit from these passives. Now, lets look at your options, you either run firewall or meteor, or fireball or incinerate. Honestly, all of which is awful because they’re all spammable abilities that fight over the same resource to use anyways. The only true choice is in one area, which is utility. You either run fire shield or the ice barrier or teleport. You might prefer to just run multiple utility spells instead but then you’re limited to once again, having to take a single choice trash passive just to not get a skill to go on the bar. Going frost? Have to go all frost. Going lightning, grab all lightning skills with like 1 choice.

Rogue is another example. There’s basically no synergy between melee and ranged so you will have 1-2 options to choose between if you go melee or if you go ranged.

Druid? same thing, going werewolf with all of the passives? well you’re getting every werewolf ability and there are no choices at all except for the companion.

It doesn’t look as bad on the beta as it is because we don’t have enough points to invest into all of the passives, but once you get deep into the rest of the passives, it’s going to be even less incentive to be using non-utility skills that don’t align with your choice. The way the trees are laid out, it makes it difficult to get the utility spells you want without putting points into some mediocre passive earlier in the tree to go to the next ‘node’ for skills.

The way the skill tree is built is shallow with lack of choice. Not nearly enough abilities at all. It tries to force you into this “pick 1 generator, pick 1 core spender, pick 1 utility, 1 movement, etc.” model and then shrinks your choice even more with passives focused onto 1-2 choices of the ‘type’ of ability in each one of those.

The way the paragon trees are laid out for the most part is just +stats, +resists, +dmg and defense. So just ‘passive power gain’, low-risk, easily balanced, shallow nodes.

So basically if I play fire sorc, I already know my build today. It’s already predetermined and I’ll pretty much be choosing either firewall or meteor and that’s it. Everything else is already pretty much chosen.

I get that blizzard isn’t trying to be PoE. It focuses on the most ultra casual players ever in all of their games within their genres but even casual players enjoy real options/choices. This has even less options than D3 which is mind blowing. I’ll go as far as to say that Diablo Immortal has better gearing/skill diversity than D3 and D4 as a mobile game.

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A casual game made for the masses to reach as many players as possible.

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Plenty of choices. You are not forced to do that. Seems more like shallow thinking on your part if you truly believe that.

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I’m having trouble thinking of an in-depth Diablo 2 build. It’s actually much more in-depth in this game. I think the problem here is you aren’t aware of some of the builds out there. Like the cool down ice blades sorc build. I bet you couldn’t even remotely list off the kind of affixes you need on gear. Basically, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

And since you have very little understanding of what you’re talking about, you think that means the game is shallow.

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I personally don’t think diablo 4 should be compared to a game from 23 years ago to be honest. We should be moving way more forward than that and the fact that there is even a comparison at all shows how shallow we are IMO.

The fact you think d4 is not shallow, says more about your capabilities than mine.

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Then what game are you talking about. It must be path of exile. This isn’t meant to be as convoluted as that game. It’s a bloated mess. That doesn’t make this game shallow. In fact, just because you disregard the most popular ARPGs besides POE, when presented with how this game is more in depth than them, it proves you are wrong. You’re simply just talking about POE.

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I don’t think you’ve ever played a game with ‘plenty of choices’ before.

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Plenty of choices that do no damage… lol.

WW for a barb that does less damage (2) than the basic level 1 attack (50+)… yeah, that’s gonna work out for you.

Sorc Dragon spell for 70% of your mana that is spec’d to do 1500 damage and does less overall than spamming the basic level 1 spark cast? Fireballs or meteors that do similar sublevel damage than the basic attack?

The game is broken before it is even playable.

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How are dem PoE numbers lately? I hear they barely broke 100k last season. Any word on the PoE 2 scam?

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I have but acting lole D4 has very little is just inaccurate.

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I’m not saying diablo 4 should be as hardcore as PoE at all. You’re comparing the 2 extremes. The most hardcore arpg and the most casual arpg. Diablo 4 should just be a little bit more advanced than it is for builds and diversity.

Example: have items or paragons that are things like “projectiles spread fire into 3 now” and this could be applied to any single projectiles in the game which open up more options generically. Change the trees so they don’t try to force you into skills along the way so we can put our points more freely around.

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There is PoE2 to look forward to if this is a flop. Looking very floppy atm.

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Yeah man, I cant wait to see why its taken them 4? years to add 4 new acts using the same game engine/skills/systems which is essentially a dlc.

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I don’t even understand why people want to compare new games to any other games and want them to be same.
I think is good we have different types of AARPG. Maybe this will keep me playing for a month? That is just fine, if there is seasons I will return every few months for new seasons.
I literally hope this wont be the same as another game, because why would I play it then, If I can already play another game that is the same?

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You need to go back and actually READ those passives.

What is your fire sorc doing? Massive Crit AoE from Fire Ball? Watching everything burn with fire walls every where? Facetanking with Incinerate? Meteor spamming?

You should know that Fire has amazing mana regen through passives as well as fire bolt. Mana is not an issue.

If you found each of those skills just a “Spammable”, then you didn’t read at all.

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I don’t understand why people make assumptions. Nobody is saying this should be the same as other games. I’m saying there should be more build options/diversity than there is and less safe node choices of “+dmg and +stats”.

That’s like creating a game that you just run across a flat ground straight to the flag with nothing to jump over and comparing it to mario and saying “hey, can we at least get a hole here and there to jump over??”. You saying: “bro just go play mario”.

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Welcome to the internet, where instead of playing the remake of a 23 year old game that was recently made, people instead want to complain that a different game isnt a remake of that same 23 year old remake.

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Literally nobody is comparing d4 to d2 except 1 random guy made 1 post. “Welcome to the internet” where people make weird assumptions due to lack of reading comprehension

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You must have not seen the forum then. There is literally every second post, saying how this is not D2, and how D2 is better, while none has played more then act I in this game past lvl 25.

I totally agree that we should have more diversity of builds and options, but people flaming other games how bad they are and so on… Is pretty sad, it is good we have also more diversity of other AARPGs, as there is not that many out there.

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Some more depth to the current skill tree wouldn’t make it as convoluted as POE; they could add two times the skill tree they have now and it still wouldn’t be as convoluted as POE.

Right now they’re dipping their toes into complexity, whereas Path of Exile barely has their nose above water.

What people would like is Blizzard to get up to at least their hips, preferably their chest.

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