Deterministic Sanctification

PC General Discussion
1

If I had to do this I would just make this simple system where you pay Heavenly Sigils to improve your outcomes:

0 Heavenly Sigils: You get what you get.
100 Heavenly Sigils: You can’t roll replace affix.
250 Heavenly Sigils: You get to pick your affix if you roll an affix.
500 Heavenly Sigils: You will roll an additional aspect and cannot roll an affix.
750 Heavenly Sigils: You get to pick your additional aspect if you roll an aspect.
1,000 Heavenly Sigils: You get a Mythic Power.
2,000 Heavenly Sigils: You pick your Mythic Power.

RNG tax. For all of the tiers you exclude “worse” outcomes but don’t exclude better ones; at 750 for instance you can roll a mythic power but you can’t roll an affix and are guaranteed to pick your aspect. No major rework required. Merit and Sweat rewarded.

1 Like
3

We have enough determinisim in this crafting system. Which I hardly consider crafting, it’s more of like item improvement or augmentation.

Crafting for me means a totaly different thing.

5 Likes
4

You mean no to the current version of the gamble system. Which is fair, it can be more polished and even tone back the best outcomes. We need more crazy stuff to happen with our gear, but not stacking mythic powers crazy.

4 Likes
5

Here’s a BIG MASSIVE HINT: Sanctification tokens have the Seasonal Leaf icon. Been there since Day 1.

Sanctification isn’t coming to the base game.

Something similar might, but it won’t be Sanctification.

BTW - this already exists, right now today as Mythics and Ancestral Uniques push the Replacement Affix off the chance table to 0%. And it doesn’t cost extra.

1 Like
6

All it takes is a super-sanctification, which increases the chance of mythical sanctification.

7

How about a superultramegahyper sanctification that puts mythic powers into all affix and gem slots too, on every equiped item. :woozy_face::woozy_face::woozy_face:

5 Likes
8

Someone didn’t get all mythic sanctifications in 3 hours eh?

1 Like
10

sanc should be a small boost, a cherry on top to complete a build not almost doubling your damage with a single one.

meh.

2 Likes
11

That is why your fear of sanctification remaining as it is now is unwarranted. Imagine the balanceing nightmare and powercreep, if the devs would want power seasons again.

Current version is our seasonal power, the temporary version (if there will be a temporary version) will have to be waaaaaaay more tame.

2 Likes
12

Depends on how you look at it.

How did you get that 99 points metric? Can you play all content and literary end up smashing it without the best? If so, what does it matter then?

Truth is that sanctification gets builds from pit 95-105 to 120-129.

Thats a crap ton of power, so i see where you are coming from. But even if you dont hit the best of the best, its still power ups that all people get to enjoy.

I do agree that mythic sanctifications are kinda nutty and should not really be a thing. I would also see a system that lets you sanctify one mythic of your choice and no more mythic sanctifications can happen, while the rest remain as is.

Overall we have a lot of things coming, the new horadric cube alternative, sets, skill reworks.

Sanctification is fun for the season, and i agree that it should not remain as is. But i want to add that many people here praised chaos uniques, which were pretty much the same insane level of power ups. Yet they praised them. Only difference is that they were way easier to get :slight_smile:

14

I would argue that adding secondary legendary powers is the only way to save this mess that D4 itemization has become.

My biggest issue with the game so far has been that the build crafting is absolutely dead.

So adding more powers in the pool, instead of the generic multipliers, and maybe some rerolls, would breathe so much life in the game. A simple example would be all the brawler aspects of the barbarian. You would never pick them on your build. Or sorcerer ice spikes. They just dont do any competitive damage. But if you could slap them on top, then hell yeah bring it on! This way you can create your main build and then finally be able to add those fun aspects and interactions that we dont ever get to use outside of the first two hours.

I mean look at any of the available builds for the past year. The are all filled with uniques and mythics.

There are just no slots to use additional game changing aspects to cook some build alternatives that feel fun to drive. You are just stack with the same formula, same uniques, same mythics, same buttons and 2 legendaries.

And for those 2 legendaries, before sanctification, the moment you got a 1GA with 2 correct affixes you were pretty much done with the slot.

16

It blows my mind that you people play an arpg and then want to remove RNG. Maybe this genre isn’t for you?

3 Likes
17

Absolutely! But is the result of making a game for a casual audience. Which is fine, dont get me wrong.

But if you want your playerbase to reach the high powerspikes fast, then huge multipliers and power boosts are the solid way to go. Otherwise you are looking at the poe2 formula.

This also means that you are reaching the 90% of the max power of a season in a few hours if you are lucky or know what you are doing. Which is why i am advocating for more systems like this. They need tuning but i will much more prefer for a way to make use of more aspects like all those i described instead of the horror that the game has been before season 10. At least these 2 seasons gave loot some more meaning.

Lets just hope that they have cooked enough things for the expansion to tackle these issues. I am not asking for another POE2, this is already out there. Just a bit more depth and buildcrafting options to allow me to enjoy the season more than a week because i find joy in playing this game compared to any other ARPG out there.

18

How quickly can these sigils be obtained, by the way?
Never try to farm them.

And I would suggest that the cost increase (or vary) depending on the quality of the item.

Your crafting sounds more like spawning.

:magic_wand: :top_hat: :rabbit_face:

Man… you need to stop doing this :sweat_smile:

19

if you played original diablo games, you would understand rng is foundational to the genre, at it’s core arpgs can be played with dice and pen and paper.And when you roll a item or search for one, fight etc you will fail sometimes. Digital offers some perks and Realtime calculations to this. in a simplified nutshell.

It should have chance risk/reward and decision making to it. Do i risk a 4ga, a mythic etc.

When Crafting GA, well again its a risk/reward to how far you push power. Be the same as if you had to hunt it on ground loot, but with this games variety and build options that would be a nightmare. So part of the job is split.

One half controlled crafting, other down to chance.How it can be. Alternative, to add a hunt to it, sanctified items with only the best outcomes become ultra rare floor finds :person_shrugging:

Seems fair for a arpg. a tweak i mentioned before is all i think is needed.

System/game for me would have been deeper if we had the loot tiers of old d4 somewhat, ancestral blues and things like that would could craft and sanctify and items could drop at varied item quality at some point etc etc.

Hoping xpac brings some enhances to these areas of the game that have been behind since launch reworks took over. :person_shrugging:

2 Likes
20

I believe the problem isn’t the RNG itself, but rather the condition of being unmodifiable at the same time as the RNG.

RNG by itself: :white_check_mark:
Unmodifiable by itself: :white_check_mark:
Unmodifiable RNG: :cross_mark:

BTW, Did this kind of RNG exist in Diablo 2?
I mean, permanently modifying a good item without any idea of ​​the result.
I know the runewords could vary, but from what I understand, the variation is incomparable to that of Sanctification.

Also… there is a recipe to remove the runes from the base and therefore reset the item (at the cost of losing the runes), right?

21

whole system is different, but what i mean is you identify a item in d1/d2 it won’t also be what you want, or have the affix you want, like poe2, that is all sanctified is in my mind with a crafting twist becasue the system is different to d1/d2.

So when you find a bogus unique in diablo, you continue on, your “Roll” at power so to speak was a loss not a win, until you get soemthing like grandfather or whatever.

Purely as example. on the core idea we a rolling for power in a forge versus a identify scroll outcome, which to me is the system at play here. it’s not trying to be d2 rune words or crafted power.

So i am not looking at it from a crafting perspective just becasue its a forge, i am looking at how it functions. Its a list of power outcomes and a dice roll win determines the outcome.

Same system as identifying items and what affix’s powers, outcomes they have. :person_shrugging:

If you can modify the outcome, then you might as well just give the player choice, but then it would be like tempering used to be,. Kind of defeats the purpose in my mind.

Not saying the system is perfect, but it works imo. The rng stacking is where i take issue tbh.

Codex power should be always max or match the current codex. this stacks rng first in getting a power roll, then which power and then its strength is rng, that is ridiculous.

If i did or didn’t exist idk, haven’t played it in a long time, but you could craft a item form white item and rune words right, and once that action is done, its done, unmodifiable so if you crafted soemthing average that was it. Maybe i am forgetting :person_shrugging: It was just a example so excuse any inaccuracy.

when you identify a item, you digitally roll and get a outcome, that is all that sanctify is but kind of in reverse and at a crafting table. So it shouldn’t be modifiable at that stage. Its like discovering the imperfect but powerful item on the floor and when it’s imperfect you can choose to hunt for a perfect outcome/item.

But like i said there is some rng on rng in the mix and that should be tightened up.

22

If you’re still chasing the perfect whatever then it works as intented.

Still that doesnt change the massive hole the rest of the endgame has.

1 Like
23

Which is the same as when you find any item in Diablo 4 but with extra steps.
(which for me is a check that is already marked and does not need to be marked again)

I don’t think this connection is necessary there.
It’s kinda like saying that if the player can change their equipped item, then you have to give them the item they want.

I think the solution it’s as simple as preventing the player from getting frustrated. You don’t want them to quit playing after all.

And yes, it’s not really that simple, but there are some basic rules, like not taking away their progress/time or that the costs of retrying something do not increase.

If it takes someone a while to find a good item, the last thing he want is for it to stop being a good item (in the player’s eyes).

An yes, items rains, but that doesn’t mean you don’t “waste” time.
Just because it’s less bad doesn’t make it good.

Less bad is still bad.
Less annoying is still annoying.
“Tolerable” is not “enjoyable”.

24

I see your points, don’t agree with all of them.

I guess we view the game a little different and that is ok.

without much thought and not from you alone, my observation tells me some just want more of a crafting game, progression like mmo loot may have.

I don’t myself want to much crafting in a diablo game, and my favourite arpgs have less than D4 has. :person_shrugging: