D4 Proposal 32 - Random skills - Hardcore Roguelite Mode

4K Poster

https://i.ibb.co/FW1nc42/d4-proposal-32-roguelite-random-skills.jpg


Random Skills

What if skills were random ?
Rules:

  • Linear XP
  • RNG skills on level up
  • Reroll / Banish for control

This way:

  • No itemization
  • Replayability

Explainer

  • No itemization: No stash, no inventory, no loot, focus on game
  • Linear XP: Gain XP, thus skills, at a linear pace, including in end game
  • RNG Skills: Active / Passive (powers). Choose 1 card among N
  • Reroll Skills: Use 1 « Reroll cards » if you don’t like the proposed cards
  • Banish Skill: Use 1 Banish skill if you don’t like a specific card in order to prevent it from appearing later. The Banished card is rerolled
  • Reroll / Banish: Consumables. +1 unit for every completed map

If Devs decide that a separate Roguelite mode is a prerequisite, then it could be accessible from the main screen, or inside the game, as a mini-game

  • Hardcore: Short games. If multiplayer, you can respawn immediately at level 1
  • Leaderboards: Score depends on Rift level, then time to complete
  • RNG Maps: Mini Rifts like D3 S29 Visions of Enmity
  • Bosses: 1 Boss arena every 9 completed maps

Inspiration

What do you folks think about having random skills, as a principal game mechanic ?

Just like D4 S2 Vampiric Theme, but with a more pronounced Roguelite style.

Starting at Level 1, at every level, the character is proposed to make 1 choice among N skills (active or passive) or improvements (+1 to skill).

Examples:

Death Must Die

  • Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2334730/Death_Must_Die/
  • 3 Choices: https://i.ibb.co/qsQRmx1/ss-df843bd57ff67a49427c59912cd025016e4f2255-1920x1080-1.jpg
  • Game Design Analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETv_wrlO9yM

Halls of Torment

  • Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2218750/Halls_of_Torment/
  • N Choices: https://i.ibb.co/R4wws4F/ss-cc4482e25bbedd6ba4f986d60079cf96574f6e51-600x338-1.jpg

Soulstone Survivors

  • Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2066020/Soulstone_Survivors/
  • 3 Choices: https://i.ibb.co/sQcfng0/406893255-1.jpg

Hades

  • Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1145360/Hades/
  • 3 Choices: https://i.ibb.co/Jdn57td/Hades-Ares-Engulfing-Vortex-Cropped-1.jpg

Nova Drift

  • 7 Choices: https://i.ibb.co/vZXCYrH/133-1.png
  • Small combination: https://i.ibb.co/M2n7xhF/wje9cq7aaqr31-1.png
  • Large combination: https://i.ibb.co/KW5Px0c/static-assets-upload883169309271238878-1.jpg
  • Skills overview: https://i.ibb.co/7X7zwCf/ezgif-com-optimize-1.gif

Crap Patrol 2

  • Mod for Starcraft 2
  • Gameplay Session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e431L6vtgn8
  • Skills always on Top Left
    • Good: Player can focus on playing
  • No full reroll: previous rolls kept in-place
    • Bad: Often lacks choice

Other proposals
https://diablo-proposals.web.app/

That works in those particular games because they’re all about the randomness and chaotic nature it causes, making sure every play through is different. It’s also typically a much shorter experience than a drawn out leveling process constantly leveling up and fine tuning your build.

If they ever implemented something similar in D4 it would have to be non-game changing in the sense that you could completely be worthless when it came to late game activities depending on the RNG you got while leveling. I just don’t see it working in any capacity that would stay true to the games you’ve listed though.

Now if D4 was played in short 20 to 30 minute intervals and the game reset upon dying or beating a specific objective it would work, but at that point you might as well just make another game entirely instead of trying to make it a gimmick in D4.

1 Like

i mean im all for options, but this seriously is a whole different game mode, thus i dont really see it happening. just implementing something like this in the current d4 design wouldnt work and neither would it be worth the effort.

3 Likes

Yes

Another reward is you can play combinations that cannot be done in the regular mode.

It’s worth the risk.

Yes, that’s why I suggested the hardcore mode

Well, there is a risk, but a very tiny one, as the Central Limit Theorem says any RNG roll becomes a Normal Distribution (Gaussian Distribution) after 30 rolls.

Sample sizes equal to or greater than 30 are often considered sufficient for the CLT to hold.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/central_limit_theorem.asp

Moreover if, instead having to choose between 3 choices, like in most of games, the player is offered to choose between 7 skills like in Nova Drift.

Introducing the D4 Roguelite mode ! :partying_face: :tada:

After all, devs implemented the Gauntlet, so why not ?

I think you mean introducing the brand new Diablo Roguelite game.

You’re equating a speed run NMD to a completely different experience of gameplay. That’s like saying well Sonic can move super fast so they should add a mode in Elden Ring where my character moves at the speed of sound. Highly doubtful the devs would ever do it. Modders sure, but not the devs.

Gauntlets don’t fundamentally change anything already currently in the game, they just add a timer and a point system. We don’t go into gauntlets with random abilities we pick up along the way. We have a set build that we’ve tailored to our specifications to speed through it as fast as possible so we can get as many points as we need to top the leaderboards. Pits will be quite similar in the pacing of the content but completely different objective to reach.

Your idea is fine, for roguelite games, but in order to implement it into D4 it would require a completely different system that overhauls how a lot of the current systems work. At that point you might as well make a brand new game for it, instead of trying to incorporate it into this game.

1 Like

No need for speed runs.

Mix together the following existing things:

  • Hardcore
  • Leaderboards
  • Series of levels
    • D4 The Gauntlet
    • D4 The Pit
    • D3 Rifts
    • D3 S29 Visions of Enmity Mini Rifts
    • D3 Echoing Nightmares
  • RNG Skills Chooser GUI
    • D4 S2 Season of Blood
      • https://i.ibb.co/zfW09hB/oar2.jpg
      • With all skills in the game
      • Better UI, cf main post
      • A similar GUI exists in D4 for Season Blessings
        • https://i.ibb.co/0jQdx3Z/Diablo-IV-Season-2-9-1536x864.jpg

Then you have the Endless Hardcore D4 Roguelite mode. :grinning:

All the ingredients are there :drooling_face:

Where is the difficulty ?

All I can say is good luck. I’ll be one of the first to congratulate you if they implement your system word for word without any alterations. :+1:

Personally speaking though, I think you’d have more luck gathering a team together, making a kickstarter, and creating the game yourself.

4 Likes

So if I dislike my random skills, I can just delete my character and get different ones?

Or are you saying I’m stuck all season with a potential loadout of 4x Generator, Flame Shield, and Teleport?

Yeah, none of what you propose is Diablo.

1 Like

To be fair, the number of times the devs on D4 have changed things, skills might as well just be random.

(j/k, j,k)

In Roguelites, every X events

  • Gain +1 Reroll Skill
  • Gain +1 Banish Skill

https://i.ibb.co/bbDmwyK/133-12.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/4K9bRQP/406893255-12.jpg

Both skills and items !

Not a problem, if itemization is dynamic and adapts to your skills.

Currently, itemization is static, developer defined.

It should be generated.

Generative AI / Generative { skills + items + maps } is the future of ARPG.

1 Like

As a different mod ? - great idea

As standardized gameplay ? - not really

For example I also wanted an SSF mod where the focus is on progress and leveling and building-up instead of on WT4 and post 100 (easier unlocks but no account-bound bonuses)

Don’t think would work as the standard game (especially in this day and age) but as a mod ? - sure thing, would probably be my fav. thing

Same with this, an Arena-like mod where you level up faster in an arena-like setting and each level you’re given random options and you choose what to take from the offerings…

BUT as a standard gameplay ? - won’t work, have to keep the standardized form of the game

Blizzard kinda did this as an endgame activity in WoW once.

Players… loved… it.
:rofl:

I personally think it could be interesting enough, but those dev resources could also be spent much better elsewhere. Like, fixing the base game.
Or, looking at the direction D4 is going, maybe less dev resources would be a good thing?!

I updated the main post with a 4K Poster.
:framed_picture: :art: :paintbrush:

Let me know what you think !

1 Like

Whoa, you surely are talented :slight_smile:

This could work with a different kind of game, the problem with this one is maps don’t clear or change - it’s the same map all the time

Unless want to make this into some kind of an arena-like event, in which case I think similar gameplay can be achieved without necessarily adding so many upgrades for skills

1 Like

The content of Rifts change.

Since S4 PTR, D4 has “The Pit of Artificers”, which is basically Seamless-Infinite D3 Greater Rifts in D4.

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo4/24078324/the-diablo-iv-season-4-ptr-what-you-need-to-know#Pit

Seems a great addition by the way.

In the main game, it is reserved to World Tier IV.

But it is possible to imagine a Roguelite mode where Random Skills Rifts would be accessible at level 1.

No to rando casino diablo

It’s okay when it’s free.