The loot / gear / itemization and economy in D4 does not hold a candle to D2. Some observations:
In D2 there are 372 unique items, 159 set items, 33 runes which can make 93 different runeword items, rare items, crafted items, charms, jewels, as well as socketed / white items. All of these items are tradable, and as a result have a value in the market ranging from zilch to multiple high-runes. You’ll have to find good drops and build wealth in order to progress your account.
In D4 there are 54 unique items, 114 aspects, and rare items. Only rare items are tradable and the drops are catered to your class, so there is a very low chance you’ll find a worthwhile rare for another class. Even if you do manage to find one - the level requirement on the item will be the level at which you found it, making it less tradable. You’ll come across most of the aspects and unique items you need for your build while leveling. You’ll get better quality items as you progress (sacred, ancestral) but the gear is all the same, just with bigger numbers.
In D2 you learn which items to pick up that are valuable. You’ll learn what different items sound like when they drop and then look to see what it is. “I just heard an amulet drop - it’s a unique, sweet!” You’ll sift through some rare items and charms. When that big time unique item or rune drops - you see it and know it immediately, you just won the jackpot.
In D4 you will fill your bags up completely with legendries and rare items (ignoring lower tier ones completely). White and blue items have zero purpose, so you leave them on the ground. You have to sift through every item individually, most are complete trash. The affixes are painful to look at. One item might be a minor upgrade. But it’s the same stat lines - just bigger numbers.
Got my first Buriza while leveling, trashed about 7,000 of them along the way, and now still using one at level 80. Does not feel good. Buriza and Windforce were both cool items in D2, and were viable for a long time. In D4 these items have zero identity. You’ll be wearing essentially the same gear and affixes for your entire time playing the character without any cool gear upgrades to look forward to.
Final thought:
In D4 the sounds for dropped items vary based upon on item quality, not the item type. I haven’t really heard this brought up but I think it’s an important part of the sound design. Not only are all those items that dropped uninteresting trash, they all sound the same when they hit the floor regardless of being jewelry or a two handed weapon. Doesn’t really make sense.
Ask yourself - in D4 does hearing a legendary item drop trigger the same feeling as hearing any ring/amulet drop in D2?
I think it all contributes to the slot machine dopamine effect everyone has been talking about. Loot is at the core of that. Also, variety is the spice of life.
Keep in mind that the number difference is compounded in D2’s favor even more because almost all of those items are usable by every class, so whether a sorc or an amazon, you have access to almost the entire pool of items. You want to make a sorc that uses a crossbow? or a barbarian that uses a staff? you got it, truly “play your way” without having to say it.
In D4, only 1/5th of that item pool is usable by your class because the others are specifically for other classes. So it feels even smaller in actuality as well as factually.
What you forgot is that Diablo 2 on release, did not have anything we inherited from Lord of Destruction expansion until much later so it can be just a little unfair to compare two games made in completely different era of gaming industry.
Another thing to note, which is what I would compare even if a little unfair between the two games though is that…
… itemization had more clear set rules for prefixes and suffixes and they were likely worked on from as early point in development as possible, while in Diablo 4 it feels like itemization might have been started on but not nearly as early in the development cycle that it maybe should have, the hierarchy is a little chaotic and one good example for this is, you can find multiple rares with + strength but its never fixed on a specific order on the item, it just rolls in any of the lines, whether its the second or the fourth line of affix.
On a side note, while I agree with your sentiment wish they would make uber uniques in Diablo 4 tradeable, since they are so adamant in keeping them rare.
You’ve probably put more effort into that post than they did in making the D4 items, which all look generated by some Excel formula. There’s no equivalent in D4 to picking up one’s first Titan’s Revenge or spotting a JMOD or Lancer’s Gauntlet of Alacrity.
I’m also a D2 fan and I’m sad to see they went away from the D2 itemization… I bought the game fully believing that runewords and loads of familiar uniques would be in the game. I just sorta quickly played the beta version because I didn’t want to spoil it for release since those characters get deleted.
I’m still playing the game and having fun but I’m just a little sad that they didn’t really try to capture that D2 feel with items. I think it’s a mistake to not make uniques tradable and having tradable runes and runewords like D2 from the start. This is continuing game from a series and D3 did some cool stuff too with rifts they could have blended them games and made a killing!
Well written, and I completely agree. I honestly believe there is a great game hidden within D4, its why I put in so many hours already. But after finally reaching level 100, the game feels lacking, and itemization is at the core of it. I played to get to level 100 because I wanted to max out a single character. Now I have virtually no interest in that character because there really is nothing left to play for. For a series that has forever been about loot, this feels like the most empty loot game i’ve ever played. I really hope the devs figure this out, because there is a great game here, should they desire to fix what clearly is a problem.
This is a terrible argument because the majority of these items were in the game already. Lord of destruction added classes and a bunch of features, jewels, horadric recipes, a fifth act and two classes, among some other stuff, but the vast majority of the gear was already present. It’s completely fair to compare it in this way, and I’d argue it’s fair to compare it to the entirety of it because they should have looked back to see what worked really well and built on that instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, except they made it rectangular and then tried to smash it through the round hole.
to be fair sets and runewords were a plague in d2.
i wouldnt want to see sets or runewords come back.
i think having 1 or 2 uniques per build and rest RNG rares with aspects is the best way to do loot, but you need trading and you need to take out class based loot buckets. the reason loot was interesting in d2 was trading.
If they already learned, in D2 and D3, that a large loot pool, and cool itemization is the core of what fans want, then why did they make the loot table in D4 so abysmally poor? You would think they would have incorporated that into their initial release and then built on it.
In my personal experience, I have items that I cant find replacements for since level 70-75, and I just hit 100 last night. This doesn’t lend itself to any long term fun factor. The game was a blast at launch, and I will enjoy playing other classes, and I think the game has the “potential” to be amazing long term, but in its current state the lack of cool gear, and the fact that every item feels the same without improvement, the game (to me at least) feels pretty stale at endgame. I don’t have much desire to play my level 100 druid at this point, other than to help out friends. The uniques are all low item level, the ones that drop are almost always significantly worse than what I already have, and honestly, I get as many or often more epic drops from trash in the overworld than in high level sigil dungeons. And I am not being a hater - I enjoyed the game, and I still enjoy the game. The difference here is that I played D2 and D3 (after it was fixed) for years. D4…I will play another class, maybe 2 to level 100, try out season 1, and then probably shelve the game out of a lack of interest. I have to believe they will eventually fix the itemization and poor loot table, and then i’ll be excited to return.
The current itemization is beyond terrible. They tried complexity and I think this is always a good thing, but in it’s current iteration it feels soulless and bland with no clear design goal. Just something mixed together with no reason or sense, just a bloated item pool with 3xx affixes where the majority of them are useless.
the hole itemisation issue is this in my opinion :
No trade
Items are catered to drop and locked behind class pool. insted of beeing generic for all classes to be used as you like.
3.To many stats , to many ussless stats.
Blizzard are fools. Look at what works god damit , you have the recepie since 2000 . Do that and dont try to inovate , YOU DO NOT HAVE THE INOVATIVE MINDS THAT MAKE A GREAT GAME…im sorry for saying this but this is the truth . You do not listen to what the comunity says , you do not apply patches based on comunity feedback , you basicly do whatever works for the wallet. Otherwhise this all issue whould of been fixed by now , shakogate be damned.
Issue is not shakogate , issue is the frustration you made on players , and having the nerve not even to answer one of the hundreds of threads made , whit a clear answer
Yea you fools whe hear you … here is what where planing on doing , it might take a while but whe promise it will be done…no , just silence.
To bad i cant refound my whole account. Blizzard used to be amazing …name used to mean something…Nuf’ Said…
Im all for inovation but when it comes to DIablo 4 devs id rader have a copy paste of diablo 2 itemisation … in diablo 4 …,. at least that works.
The difference I see that is detrimental is that in Diablo 2, nothing was scaled to character level but instead dungeons and zones were all tied into a set of area levels which gradually grew higher the more you explored the storyline, eventually being capped at end of a final act, which probably influenced how the itemization numbers grew to be as it got fleshed out.
Here monsters scale to your character level, once you grow high enough they won’t be locked behing the area level anymore apart from very early on, in example why monsters are always 53+ in Nightmare and 73+ in Torment, before we out level and get them scaled to ours.
Perhaps this difference lead into this mess of the current state of itemization in Diablo 4, hard to get it grounded where it feels right when they did not stick with the concept of keeping difficulties scaled and locked behind area level.
While the D4 itemization is really bad I certainly don’t want the D2 standard back. Open trade would be a terrible decision and runewords were a mistake. Also smart loot and personal loot is always the way to go.
nothing says iconic loot like 6 classes wearing enigma, hoto, kaleidoscope, sojs/bk, shako, magefists/vamps and goreriders. with either string or the other belt i forgot the name of.
that was super interesting gearing i would love to see in d4. it was awesome having the same 10 viable items and everything else trash except like, circlets (because necros theoretically had BIS a rare circlet, and amulets (because sorcs had best in slot a rare amulet.) and all sets be pretty much trash except if youre very poor and feel like playing a barb you could get immortal kings or for your first ever sorc you coulld get by with tal rashas because you would be too poor to put enigma on your sorc, because thats how broken runewords were, there were sorcs with enigma running around.
I FORGOT STORMSHIELD. everyone gets to wear a stormshield. are you a sorc? u wear a stormshield. are you a pally? u get a stormshield.
d2 had 2 sets of gear. it was “are you melee or not?” if you are melee you wear this, if you arent you wear that, except the difference in the actual gear was just rings and belt and gloves. lol.