Compound Ability Tree concept

Hello dead subforum,

I come to you humbly seeking some input. As we all know these forums are moribund because the game itself has proven hugely unpopular, particularly in the endgame. The most commonly brought up issue is limited rewarding and progressive itemization depriving players of incentive to keep playing. In my opinion the game has an even more fundamental problem - it’s based on a primitive ‘model’ of combat going back to the dawn of computer gaming that is most stirring in the sugar-coated, candy-@ss memories of aging millennials. In other words I believe the simplistic nature of combat is itself an enormous problem.

Being an underachieving unemployed millennial myself I’ve decided to try to redeem my cohort. It didn’t take all that much thought to conceive of a concept I refer to as a compound ability tree, which is kind of like a regular skill tree that you can actually “Play Your Way”*. I call it what I call it because it branches off an ability - more specifically, a button. The way I figure if you’re going to advance the combat of this game beyond certified tard level you’re going to need more actions. The problem is more actions mean more buttons, which becomes potentially thorny. So I thought of a ‘clever’ alternative that makes great use of the standard four buttons. Welcome to the unheralded future of gaming.

You click on a non-basic or non-core ability button, activate one of the standard abilities as normal, but instead of the button subsequently going unused on cooldown you enter the compound ability tree. The four buttons are remapped to the first level of the CAT. You execute one ability from the level and progress to the second level. You have to finish the tree, i.e. going through all its levels, but one button can be reserved to exit the tree if you wish to use the other normal abilities.

In terms of game lore the tree is equivalent to a tablet, which is a containment structure for ability fragments and passages of conjunction. Ability fragments are the abilities exclusive to the CAT that you can slot in, remove, and reslot at no expense. Passages of conjunction are effects that trigger in between the levels… to make the thing snazzier. These three elements are encountered by the player mostly as loot in the endgame thus improving the itemization reward progression aspect everyone finds so crucial.

I’ve leveled a Barbarian almost to level 30 in season one and naturally I feel like an expert in the class, deciding to make an initial example of the concept based on this class. You may disagree with my decisions, unadvisedly even with the whole thing:

Tablets

Introductory

  • 1 level, 2 ability fragment slots
  • 1 level, 4 ability fragment slots

Intermediate

  • 2 levels, 4 ability fragment slots
  • 2 levels, 4 ability fragment slots, 1 common passage of conjunction
  • 3 levels, 4 ability fragment slots
  • 3 levels, 4 ability fragment slots, 1 common passage of conjunction
  • 3 levels, 4 ability fragment slots, 2 common passages of conjunction
  • 3 levels, 4 ability fragment slots, 1 common and 1 rare passage of conjunction
  • 3 levels, 4 ability fragment slots, 2 rare passages of conjunction

Advanced

  • 4 levels, 2 rare passages of conjunction
  • 4 levels, 3 rare passages of conjunction
  • 4 levels, 2 rare and 1 legendary passages of conjunction
  • 4 levels, 1 rare and 2 legendary passages of conjunction
  • 4 levels, 3 legendary passages of conjunction
  • 4 levels, 3 legendary passages of conjunction, level 1 is of level 2 ability fragments (it may make more sense to allow the use of both ability fragment levels especially considering the random stuff I’m coming up with), levels 2 and 3 of level 3 ability fragments
  • 4 levels, 3 legendary passages of conjunction, level 1 is of level 2 ability fragments, level 2 is of level 3 ability fragments, levels 3 and 4 of level 4 ability fragments
  • can have variations where you start with more powerful ability fragment levels and/or sandwich

Ultimate

  • 5 levels, 3 legendary passages of conjunction, variations of ability fragment levels with the last reserved for level 5 ability fragments

  • Nothing is set in stone… pun intended, as this is brainstorming.

Ability Fragments

Level 1

  • Arsenal Warm-up - Perform a rapid series of single-target attacks with all three weapon types.
  • Frustrated Fury - Get a free use of a core skill that deals 50% damage but gives you fury equal to 1.5x its fury cost.
  • Internalized Weakness - Remove debuffs from surrounding enemies, doubling the effects they would suffer from these debuffs if reapplied for the next 4 seconds.
  • Homicidal Ideation - Newly inflicted bleeding damage is increased by 66.6% over the next 4 seconds.
  • Evasion - Give Evade unstoppable for 2 seconds.
  • Amplified Shout - Extend duration of active shouts by 2 seconds.

Level 2

  • Psych-out - Give yourself berserk for 5 seconds.
  • Fortified - You are fortified for 5 seconds.
  • Overpowered - Your next three core and weapon mastery skills overpower.
  • Run - Increase movement speed by 100% for 8 seconds.
  • Self-Immolation - Set yourself on fire, damaging close enemies, leaving a trail of fire burning and lighting enemies on fire, lose 35% of your health gradually, and gain 40 fury gradually over 4 seconds. (I literally hadn’t seen Wrath of the Berserker when I wrote this, but it should still be distinct enough.)
  • Uppercut - Swing at an enemy with your two-handed bludgeoning weapon, dealing moderate damage to them and launching them backward knocking down all enemies in the flight path and at the landing location for 3 seconds.

Level 3

  • Ancient Spear - Throw out a chain spear that inflicts serious bleeding damage to all enemies it passes through and pulls you to its end-location. If it ends on an enemy inflict double the bleeding damage to it.
  • Basic Trained - Increase the speed of your basic attacks by 40%, they gain an area of effect, and deal 80% more damage for 5 seconds.
  • Chosen Warrior - Execute a normal enemy, eat its innards, and restore 80% of your maximum health.
  • Deadly Assault - Run to an enemy and pummel it with repeated blows for severe damage, fearing nearby enemies. Target is knocked down for 3 seconds.
  • Pest Controller - Slam your two-handed bludgeoning weapon around you dealing moderate damage and stunning enemies for 3 seconds.
  • Furious Shout - Channeled over a maximum of 4 seconds replenishing all fury.

Level 4

  • Elite Charge - Become unstoppable and rush at will for 4 seconds, pushing enemies with you, damaging them, then swinging through them for double damage and knocking them back.
  • Massacre - Take wide jumps forward from side to side, swinging through enemies with your two-handed slicing weapon dealing significant immediate damage as well as heavy bleeding damage.
  • Discombobulate - Sweep/undercut enemies around you with a chain slowing them by 50% for 10 seconds, spin a second time to collect them with a chain, then scatter the clump outward with your two-handed bludgeoning weapon for moderate damage and dazing enemies for 3 seconds.
  • Simplicity - Basic attacking a particular single enemy increases basic and core skill damage by 20% stacking up to 200%. Lasts 12 seconds.
  • Kill Zone - Taunt enemies in a sizable range, gain 60% damage reduction, and deal serious splash damage around you with repeated blows.
  • Tactical Retreat - Gain unstoppable, run back recovering 40% of your maximum life, then run forward striking the ground with your two-handed bludgeoning weapon, rupturing it, dealing moderate damage, and stunning enemies for 2.5 seconds.

Level 5

  • Massive Earthquake - Strike the ground twice creating a far-reaching earthquake that pulses every 3 seconds, slowing enemies by 50%, making them vulnerable, and dealing moderate damage each time.
  • Sundering - Sunder the earth in a long line, dealing heavy damage and shoving enemies to the side, stunning them for 4 seconds.
  • Yes, these are Thrall’s ultimate abilities from Heroes of the Storm, another game with potential Blizzard mismanaged.
Passages of Conjunction

Common

  • Extend effects of following level ability fragments by 10%.
  • Reduce cooldowns by 2 seconds.
  • Deal 5% more damage for 2 seconds.
  • Generate 15 fury.

Rare

  • Improve duration of effects of following level ability fragments by 20% or at minimum 1 second.
  • Reduce cooldowns by 5 seconds.
  • Reduce ultimate ability cooldown by 10 seconds.
  • Deal 10% more damage for 4 seconds.
  • Generate 30 fury.
  • Increase bleeding damage by 20% for 4 seconds.
  • Extend ranges of effect by 20% for 4 seconds.
  • Increase movement speed by 20% for 4 seconds.

Legendary

  • Improve duration of effects of following level ability fragments by 30% or at minimum 1.5 seconds.
  • Reduce cooldowns by 10 seconds.
  • Reduce ultimate ability cooldown by 20 seconds.
  • Deal 15% more damage for 5 seconds.
  • Generate 50 fury.
  • Increase bleeding damage by 30% for 5 seconds.
  • Extend ranges of effect by 30% for 5 seconds.
  • Increase movement speed by 30% for 5 seconds.
  • The chosen ability of the following level gains a second charge.
  • The following level requires two abilities to be used.

This is a brillant idea. I can finally use this to play D4…

www.youtubecom/watch?v=9ZP3k_4XBFY

Actually, you’d just have to use your brain somewhat more. Maybe tap into that 90% where your latent superpowers lie. Furthermore, as an endgame system and with difficulty settings you can just ignore it entirely. We’re looking to make the tent bigger.

If the implication is that you’d be using this whenever it’s available, yes, that is correct, which is no different than how you use many cooldown abilities. Unlike in present combat there isn’t necessarily a fixed rotation and mutually exclusive selections mean making decisions on the fly, which is different from both what you do presently and that brilliant video you linked for no apparent reason.

And actually, given the ability to exit and reenter a CAT with each level having multiple abilities I honestly don’t know what you’re on about. Probably didn’t understand the post.

Because there’s third party programs that does this exact feature with no input by the user.

Enlighten me, good sir. I hope I have not misgendered you. Sounds to me like there are bots that can play games instead of people, therefore we shouldn’t bother developing games… now I am thoroughly confused.

Can you take out the bloviated intro and reform it into a question? :wink:

2 Likes

It’s meant to be more of an answer. The question I started with was how can combat be significantly improved in this game, which morphed into an association with itemization, progression, and reward. To me and to at least a few others the basic answer is players need to have more tools in their hands, more abilities. Today I saw that Path of Exile 2 is supposed to be coming out with 240 active skills (in addition to 1500 passive nodes bloated with tons of crap) so there is no excuse for this game. To bypass issues with involving more buttons I came up with this basic idea, which is also more flexible in many ways.

Have ability “trees” that players fill in and upgrade as they play the endgame. These special ability trees exist on buttons and are essentially active. In other words, you put an ability tree on Q. So when you press Q to use whatever normal ability you have on Q the ability executes but the button doesn’t go on cooldown. Instead you enter the first level of the tree. The same four buttons you use in addition to basic and core skills are remapped to the special abilities on the first level of the tree. One of the buttons exits the tree but you have to return to and complete the tree before the normal ability that started it becomes available again. You progress through the tree by using one ability on every level. It’s relatively simple.

The three collapsed sections at the end of the post offer a specific example of what a tree of this sort could like look with the available components to construct it. There are three types of components - tablets that define the basic structure of a tree, ability fragments that are the abilities you would be placing and using on the tree, and passages of conjunction that are passive effects triggered when you progress in the tree.

This is supposed to make the game more fun.

I like skill trees. Last Epoch has a good one they took from Dark Age of Camelot. I enjoy barb combat personally. Just need more abilities that DO stuff.

Well, this is more than a skill tree. Traditional skill trees exist in the ether and you’re very limited in how many skills you can actually use. Traditional skill trees are the set of options you have to put on 4-6 buttons, then keep pounding those 4-6 buttons, which can devolve to you pounding fewer buttons (like one in a worst case scenario). These compound ability trees in essence refresh buttons with different abilities for much more dynamic gameplay. I don’t think any ARPG does this. In fact, I’m not sure any game does this. (There’s actually an interesting parallel to be made to something like BG3. It’s like adapting that turn-based choice into live-action gameplay on a limited set of buttons that can accommodate consoles.)

Good ideas. Maybe someone will steal it :slight_smile:

1 Like

Try developing a system that require active human input instead of automated sequential actions. I mean someone made a bot that can play Jump King.

Dog, this is literally what playing the game is about - pressing buttons. Someone made a bot that can play Dota 2 and Starcraft 2. Gaming is still alive.

Your purposal is fire and forget. Something a Turn Base game would benefit from. I’m not sure how long a person can play Cookie Clicker with a macro.

Pro-, not pur-. I didn’t write it for my cat.

No one’s in any hurry, that’s for sure.