Lol I can see how that would be a issue
I’m all for leaving game as is.
Im just joking. If people want to find a reason to kick some poor souls they will do it wether theres a dps meter or not.
Im pretty sure the devs will be able to implement a nice clean chatwindow including a damage log folder.
The amount of cope in this response is near-lethal levels. Parse was never a guarantee that you could clear content, but it provided a metric to say you sort of knew mechanics and that your performance was decent. For pugs, it was to simply filter out the trash with gray parses because no one wanted to carry that (unless it was GDKP).
Like it or not, parses were there to keep bad players from wasting everyone’s time
because why would you even try to compare to that ?
what would bring toxicity is being able to compare between team mates while playing (so…live dps meter, this would be very bad)
if we get the dps meter only in a solo training room with dummies it doesn’t matter nor will be known to someone else than ourselves eitherway.
especially since your post forget one simple logic : you can already see streamers doing billions of damage, possibliy ten time more than you do, with or without dps meter so…that wouldn’t change anything in your example
in a dummy room it will simply be an effective tool to know if you should use more vulenrable damage % or crit damage % etc…
or to compare between two aspects more effectively
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if I don’t have max movement speed, and i’m playing in a group that does, and they are parsing, how will I do DPS?
lf1m dark citadel - must do 10 billion dps. Link screenshot of dps in this group finder discord.
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I’d much rather have a buff/debuff addon to move the icons where I want to see them (or change the appearance).
It’s insane how people are against it for one of the following:
- elitism and gatekeeping
- i follow a guide so i dont care
For (1), 85% play solo, the rest that are grouped most likely dont even care for your dps. There is no content that cares for dps. Everyone that groups with you, does for your materials not because your dps is offering anything particular. In the end of they day, posts here claim that the group content makes them leave. You cant be gatekeeped if you dont play the game.
For (2), most guides are meant to get you to a point where you faceroll most content but not the highest pits or best min/max. The times i have swapped paragon points around since i surpassed caps due to GA rolls and had wasted points or simply fixed tiny mistakes that end up in 1-5% damage improvement, are a lot.
People might be ok with it, but a dps meter is the ONLY way in this game to know if getting this +1 core skill but less unique affix damage number ends up in a net gain or loss in your damage. The numbers are so random that noticing that 2% diff is impossible. My deathblow barb hits from 700m to 1.8b and anything in between. There is noway to tell if getting that str GA with less unique affix power is an upgrade in the total damage. The numbers are way to similar to tell.
So again, because casuals are afraid of something we need to suck it up.
No leaderboards. No dps meters. No in game tools or depth. Mythic piniatas. Hate for group content. It really gets annoying to always care only for those that basically cant really play the game or outright deny trying to and to not introduce something they dont like, their response is “i follow a build, i dont need a dps meter”.
I am all in for helping and catering for this group. I played 3 seasons full casual. Sometimes i get to play more. Sometimes i dont get to play at all. I know, i understand. But i never set my expectations wrong, just because i felt i deserve everything in the game. Eternal realm exists for a reason after all. The game needs to also cater for the part that actually plays the game and are invested.
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So, if there is:
- “no content that cares for dps.”
and
- “noticing a 2% diff is impossible.”
Then what does it matter?
And, side question, how do you know you “fixed tiny mistakes that end up in 1-5% damage improvement” without a damage meter?
And to be clear, most people are not “afraid” of a DPS meter (even the casuals, who as you point out - don’t group). However, judging from the responses to this thread, a number of us just think it is completely pointless and we KNOW it will be used in a toxic manner.
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And, side question, how do you know you “fixed tiny mistakes that end up in 1-5% damage improvement” without a damage meter?
The most recent example i can think off is the maxroll lightning spear build where it wastes 2 paragon points on simple int sockets instead of picking +10 int +35% conjuration damage on the static surge board.
Another was the latest blood surge builds where they added more resistances than needed(due to gear progress) but the final board allows to strip 4 points of elemental resistances when geared and put them on any other additives.
Testing the first is easy, testing the second became easier when using a grandfather build and investing points in +crit damage glyph.
Now testing the deathblow barb was a no go. I couldnt figure out if anything changed… It was basically impossible.
So yeah it is not about content that cares for dps. If we are going your route then no casual needs mythics or GAs. Nobody will need full ancestral gear, so lets keep the drop chance where it is, where every casual has raised pitchforks and made 5 posts about how the expansion is dead on arrival if that remains as is.
It is about pushing your gear to the max. Some of us enjoy that chase and would appreciate some help outside of excels and manual testing that gives terrible results.
Others find enjoyment in facerolling the game by following a guide, getting to max level in 2 hours and logging out in a few days. Others enjoy testing and min maxing.
It sucks that there is no content -worthy- of pushing these min maxes, since pit is terrible tbh, but that is not the point of this discussion imo.
They could implement a fixed damage weapon. Deals 10 per hit.
I just honestly don’t understand where you’re coming from. I’m trying, really.
It’s just:
You freely admit there is “no content -worthy- of pushing these min maxes, since pit is terrible,” yet claim you need a DPS meter to judge if you’re “pushing your gear to the max.”
You speak derisively about meta builds as “facerolling the game by following a guide” yet all your examples of enjoying “testing and min maxing” are about optimizing those same builds.
You speak of casuals as people who “cant really play the game or outright deny trying to” yet claim you need a DPS Meter to figure out if your build works optimally.
You claim to “enjoy that chase and would appreciate some help outside of excels and manual testing that gives terrible results,” yet you presumably think you can min/max a non-meta build and that you should get meta results.
What is it that you think a DPS meter on a training dummy is going to show you that live runs won’t?
What does it matter how much DPS a build can throw at 1 or 5 training dummies that don’t move, cc, or fight back in any way?
I’ve asked others in this thread this question: How is that DPS training dummy number a more reliable measure of a build than how quickly you can (on average) clear X fight efficiently and safely?
What does it show you about your gear that running the fight doesn’t and what do you have to lose testing it out in a live fight to see if it actually works?
Is it that you’re trying to boil your builds down to one number as if that magically tells you which one is the best?
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My lord, with all kindness, you are just trying to argue for the sake of arguing.
The way the game is setup right now, you do not need mythics or GA uniques to clear any endgame content. You need the aspects, the uniques, correct stat rolls and you are facerolling through every last content available.
The game allows you to roll over it, except high pits, holding a pistol. But it enables you to also creat a machine gun. Even if its overkill. Since it does, i am trying to create that. Because i like it and i can. There is nothing more to it.
Since the casual community wants it all, you can get mythics and GAs in a matter of hours if you know how to play this game. Farming tormented gregoire in rotations leads to mythics asap. Farming t5-6 hordes shower you in GAs. We are literary talking about a few hours to fully gear up. Casuals that say that they have not geared up yet but have played daily simply dont know how to play the game or outright deny learning/trying.
As for “why” i want to optimize. Because this is what i enjoy doing. Since the game ends up meaningless fast if you are not pit pushing, to basically allow the casuals to gear up as i describe(deny it all you want, this is how things are).
So when a GA drops with a slight difference in numbers i would love to understand which is better. Mine or the new one? I like testing, i like understanding, i like math and working out my brain. But sometimes, due to bugs, aspects not working, numbers being cluttered, weird or unexpected interactions, there is not way to actually test small changes.
As i said before. This is what i find joy in and it helps with juicing up some extra time in a game i like.
Same as casuals finding joy in accessing everything in the game after investing 10-20 hours.
How is my kind of enjoyment weird that you cant see it? Especially since i clearly explained it.
You just don’t want an “elitist” or “toxic” tool to be introduced. And i understand this. But i don’t understand how you try to argue not seeing why someone would want this in a game about min maxing.
Thank you for explaining, I think I see your position more clearly, now.
I don’t think your position is “weird” and I don’t disagree with your analysis with how quickly “casuals” can get gear that clears endgame content (assuming they take the time to craft/follow a decent build).
I also can see how a DPS meter can help you in your pursuit of making a “machine gun,” as you put it.
However, I stand by my position that it isn’t a magic number that will tell you how good your build is; only real runs can do that (assuming such content is added/utilized). I also stand by my position that whatever good a DPS meter may do for a minority of players, like you, who would use it constructively; it’s potential to be misunderstood and mis-used by the community is enormous.
I can see such how such a tool would be beneficial to some, but I can also see how it would be misused by the vast majority of the community.
That is why I am arguing against it; not because I want to argue for the sake of argument, but because I think it will cause more harm than good.
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That is why I am arguing against it; not because I want to argue for the sake of argument, but because I think it will cause more harm than good.
And this is why i started by saying “with all kindness”. I know you are going against it for a reason and i understand this reason pretty well, which is why i preferred you telling me this instead of trying to find broken links in my logic.
I openly admitted that there is no content other than pits to test this, and pits are not helping due to the nature of them.
You can get different timings per boss based on the things you had to dodge in that run. Its never a stand still scenario that you can effectively time it multiple times.
So you have no actual way of testing if you get a 1% improvement from something(dont forget that you are looking for the sum of these +1% which leads to pushing the pits for example) other than smacking your head to a boss for 10mins. Not the most enjoyable thing i would say.
I am personally all in for blizz enforcing bans to people that try to use a dps check for gatekeeping content and group playing.
I also know that a single number will not matter, it needs to be more advanced than that.
A man can dream i guess! 
“LF2M T8 Hordes, 10m DPS 12/12 MW, NO PUBLIC PROFILE - dm screenshot of dps proof for inv”
Dm or kick is fine. But also important:
-
blue hair or kick (players with blue hair are crazy individuals with an advanced love to high damage numbers and overall op-ness)
-
ATC or kick (only the fine gentlemen allowed having the horn of Ashava in their possession)
totally agree, plus an auction house (real money or not, it doesnt matter, people anyway buy with real money from gold sellers) and loot filter.
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Just say you are afraid of meters lol. Its okay to admit it. If there are groups of people who would honestly require screenshots of dummy room dps meters, then that tells you to avoid that group. Heck, a dps meter gives you an active tool of finding who to avoid, in this case, because anyone spamming it as a requirement should be avoided.
And it would just be nice to min/max down to the very last 1% of extra damage. As it stands, pit clears or boss kill times ARE not reliable, unless you are proccing the exact same buffs and buff uptimes every time you run through and have changed 1-2 variables.
Lastly, either way, a nobody’s opinion is a nobody’s opinion–blizz either will or wont implement a dps meter, along with an in-game AH. They just need to see whats trending in the forums
Some Diablo players are really sensitive to anything that exposes their weaknesses like leader boards, dps meters or group play.
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