Burning damage is still disappointing in endgame (after all the buffing)

Sorcerer
1

So i tried a burning damage build for the 4th time now. And it falls flat yet again at around monster level 140. It just dosent scale.

Let me explain.
So, i went for Firewall + Incinerate + Hydra and lucky hit chance for Firewall Enchantment proccs (since crit chance is useless). This also works pretty well for defenses (HP on lucky hit + Temerity) and Incendiary Aspect (for mana recoup) and cc proccs.
For offensive aspects i went for Conflagration and Creeping Death / Engulfing Flames.
And with Paragon i went for Burning Instict, Enchanment, Frigid Fate and Elemental Summoning with Torch, Adapt, Conjurer, Elementalist and Reinforcer for Glyphs.

I found a double GA Frostburn (Gloves), a Flamescar with GA on Incinerate (Wand) and Tal Rashas with GA on non-phys and 19%. That was the best start in terms of items i ever had for this build. Flamescar was one of worst items, now it is actully useful to this build.

But still, even after buffing Combustion (key passive) and Burning Instinct (main paragon aspect), it just sucks in endgame (pit and tormented bosses).

In some ways it got even worse (Hydras where pretty good at proccing Flame Walls, now they almost cant at all). I think it is a problem that burning damage (DOTs in general) is consilidated into one dmg tick. That is just bad for proccs. Which are important since crit is useless and only leaves is with lucky hit.

It is somewhat sad and frustrating. I like Incinerate and Flame Wall, i like the playstyle to channel and torch the entire screen. But it cant keep up with the hp scaling on the monsters (and there is also a general problem with channel builds in basically any ARPG of this type, that is that defense is usually capped while dmg can scale to the moon).
The new legendary aspect for burning dmg is completly useless (Firestarter), at least for burning damage builds.
I think this cant work on a fundamental level. My suggestion would be a “ramp-up” mechanic that escaltes damage over time each time it is applied or prolonged, instead of just consolidating all instances. Or at least make the DOTs tick on their own in order to procc stuff.

Any thoughts?

4 Likes
2

I used the Incinerate build specifially for levelling to 100 real fast then to round up the gear I needed for a Lightning Spear build supported with Frozen Orb for conjurations. Now everything is dead before I get to the corpses! It’s great for levelling but burning is not really for end game this season (unless some streamer discovers some bizarre hax with it).

1 Like
3

Incinerate is fine, i’m doing up to 400m ticks with it this season already but it is absolutely trash in the new mechanic due to having to stand still.

Hydra/firewall are just complete garbage

4

Having some fun with firewall, hydra and meteor with the helm for meteor, still leveling 88 ATM. The cool down on meteor helm just sucks though. I might revisit to see if I can get lucky rolls on master crafting but a cd that can range from 4 to 8 is just pretty crap game development.

5

Whut? Is that a typo or are you actually doing 400 million damage a tick with incinerate?

6

More like 400k, even 4m would surpise me. (my build in the op does ~5m per tick max)
I played Bone Spirit Necro last season, with max gear and always crit and always overpower i did ~300m every 2.5 sec. And that was one the strongest builds.

Btw, i made a second Sorc with basically the same gear (in terms of progress).
Also lucky hit, based on the new freeze=cold dmg aspect and Frostnova enchantment (perma freeze mayhem - murdes everthing in “sceonds”). Used the 2xGA Frostburn gloves and Tal Rashas again. Focus on summons with Fratured Winterglass and maxxed Hydras (3 x 7 heads) + Frost Blades and Lightning Spear. I could do the same pit (51) with lvl 90 in 1/5 the time, compared to the build in the op.
Sure Fractured Winterglass is one the best items in game - but still - burning dmg is crap at endgame.

7

I understand your frustration. Burning DOT has always been the weakest build in the Sorc arsenal since S0.

I’m running Firewall since S2, but in S1 I was running Hydra. All Burn based. In S5, my build is Firewall with Flamewaver/Firebolt.

I think I’m doing fine. The build is not S tier. I would say it’s more on the A tier. I can do the following:

  • Pit 90
  • T6
  • Tormented Bosses

I think once I max my build, the uppermost limit would be around Pit 100s. T7 might be possible.

Here’s my single elite dummy test results:

  • Just casting some Firewall with some buffs: 15-20 million per tick
  • Unleashing my mob combo with some Firebolt in between: 20-30 million per tick
  • Dropping everything. Inferno included and Vulnerable: 30-40 million per tick
  • Highest number: I saw is 65 million per tick but not common

Now if I add spamming Firebolt, the Basic dmg is quite weak but the fast attack does adds up. I don’t know the numbers but it helps in mobbing. Again the number above do not represent the actual Firebolt performance. Those are mainly the burn ticks. It also doesn’t factor in the chain of Fireball enchantment explosions.

I am using Shako here (I got it by Transmuting). I think with my triple GA Godslayer I can domore damage but with the defensive bonuses from Shako, it allows me to fight longer.

1 Like
8

Yes. With the correct procs, I can hit for 400+m ticks.

It’s not permanent 400m but usually around 150-250m ticks on bosses.

9

No. You’re wrong.

I logged in quickly again, tried to scramble back my character, didn’t really remember exactly what I had and recorded it quickly. Managed to make it hit for 320~m or so.

Missing the torch rune activation for another multiplier and gear is not correct.

htt.ps://strea.mable.com/wm.mli3

Remove dots in link

10

If that’s the case, won’t you easily obliterate even the most difficult bosses?

11

Lilith or uberbosses all die very quickly, yes.

Although I would say those are no longer something to strive for since elites in t8 infernal horde can have more hp than them lol

Damage has never really been the issue for incinerate. Surviving has.

I built this decently tanky at around 25k hp and tyraels (int sockets on all gear though) so we could definitely get a lot more damage into it but standing still in arpgs just means death.

12

I also did hydra + firewall. I switched to fireball but I kind of want to try again and just focus on basically a hydra build and use firewall as just a damage mult for the hydras. Not sure if it will really work. Probably drop in the other two conjurations as well for a full conjuration style build. Unsure if it will work or not.

EDIT:
On the training dummy I could get burn ticks up to about 18 million at the absolute maximum. That’s not really realistic though since real monsters actually move around lol.

13

What’s the upper limit of your build so far that you can complete in Pit and Infernal?

I mean if it’s T7 is fine and T8 is impossible, that’s understandable and that’s already a big win for Incinerate. For Pit 100, that’s also a good win for that build.

My survivability is fine so far in Pit 90s and T6. I’m not using potions at all for health because I am using Soulbrand. Just relying on warmth, barrier, and DR.

14

I didn’t try the build in infernal at all. I just built it and threw it away an hour later lol

I did pit 101 to test how fast it was and it felt okay. Obviously you won’t go around blasting normal packs for 150-200m since there’s way too many conditionals in the build so for once a sorc build has a quick bosskill but slow clear.

I used shako + tyraels + Tibaults so no healing from warmth or such so had to chug pots + barriers

I do not think my setup would do t8 at all. You would get slapped too hard trying to ramp up damage

1 Like
15

Thanks for sharing. Yeah there’s gonna be tradeoffs. Based on what you’ve described, I feel Incinerate with the right build can be considered A tier because it can do at least Pit 101.

16

So it seems that at least pure Incinerate build is somewhat viable.

I guess that is with 2H and Flamethrower + Conflagration?! And those high numbers only while -50% hp with Engulfing flame?

Hard to imagine to reach such numbers. My glyphs where only lvl 15 and the gear with only a few GA and only half masterworked to 4/12, so there is room for improvement. I guess i have to try it.

thx for the feedback guys

17

Not using any -50% hp aspect shenanigans. Conceited, shredding, conflag and flamethrower. All of them which have 100% uptime

18

Firebolt is better for burning, basic skill has better multiplier, speed and Uniques.

19

I think that just proves one of the implied hidden points. This is no different than saying LS/FO is the better build if not the best build.

But I think the point people are asking about is what about these other burn skills?

20

I would say Blizzard is not able to cope with the need of balance all skills to equal level as they keep release new Unique and legendary aspect every season which itself has its own balancing issue. As this is a seasonal game, Blizzard is forced to keep release new toys to keep the game fresh and put the balancing issue aside.

It is very obvious that Blizzard is lack of man power to maintain the game as there are still many obvious bugs and quality of life not being addressed. It is common for corporate to keep the headcount lean for maximum profit. Those plp talking about Blizzard has A team and B team working on different seasonal theme are hearsay. :wink:

1 Like