Enough anyway that you can normalize monster/boss health and make the game feel more balanced. It’s also a heck of a lot easier than trying to balance the different classes which are by design different.
Barbarians may have more aspect slots, but the actual core problem is extra multiplicative multipliers in those slots makes that matter orders of magnitudes in some cases. Same with haves vs have nots of ubers, top end masterworked gear, etc.
The damage range of trillions (quadrillions) at the top end for some players vs millions or less for casuals makes it impossible for monster health equality that feels good. It’s why uber bosses have quadrillions of life and as player power creeps it’ll keep getting worse.
It cannot be a ring. Is not a consolation price. Even if we get a ‘Medal’ that can equip the same amount of additive damage than all Barbarian weapons combined, they still get to wear more aspects, mythics and uniques at the same time.
I appreciate your input but I disagree. The classes can still be different with the same number of variables, it just needed a different shader. The fact that they weren’t like that since the beginning is a design problem. We have ‘all-class’ items that simply don’t function or can’t perform as intended because they are mental on Barbarians. And other classes have weaker passives, weaker core and basic skills, we have no other way to scale damage, they keep introducing aspects and items we can’t slot because there is no space! Word Boss is a different subject, they need to do something about world events because they are a complete joke, using player health to estimate and balance the monster health should be revisited. It is boring and setting up my alarm to kill the WB at the beginning of the season is not fun, it is a job.
I don’t disagree with you. The classes can feel distinct with the same number of variables. I’m just saying there’s a way to adjust the final damage output where the input doesn’t matter.
The extreme example is a straight cap. This is not a good solution (in my opinion) as it promotes getting to that cap then never having any reason to grind for more damage (see armor, crit, resists, etc.).
That’s why I proposed a solution (I wrote a post linked in this thread above) that implements a soft cap system on Monsters (resilience). I won’t detail all of it again here (I hope you take a look, feedback appreciated), but here’s 2 extreme examples from the post:
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Monster cap of 500 million (M), player hits for 4 quadrillion (Qa): 500M + log( 4Qa / 500M) * 500M = ~3.95B
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Fire resistant monster has fire cap of 10 thousand (K), player hits with fire skill for 4 quadrillion (Qa): 10K + log( 4Qa / 10K) * 10K = ~126,020 fire damage
if you really think the barbarian is currently the best balanced class. then you should all reach the barbarian level with all classes instead of nerfing the barbarian now. isn’t that the only way to get ahead?
In the ongoing debate over class balance, particularly between Sorcerers (Sorc) and Barbarians (Barb), it’s evident that the scales have been tipped in favor of the Barbarian class for over a year. This imbalance has sparked numerous arguments within our community, but I believe the crux of the issue isn’t about competition; it’s about balance itself.
The Barbarian class, as it stands, is significantly more balanced, leading to a one-sided dominance that stifles real competition. It’s not just about one class being better than the other; it’s about how this imbalance affects the overall health of the game.
From a game theory standpoint, we’re witnessing a dominant strategy emerge with the Barbarian class. This strategy consistently outperforms others, regardless of the opponents’ actions, leading to a static and predictable gameplay environment. This is where the concept of Nash Equilibrium comes into play. In our scenario, the Barbarian class has reached a point where any change in strategy by other classes (like the Sorcerer) doesn’t yield a better outcome, thus creating a stagnant meta.
The solution isn’t to nerf other classes or Barbarian into oblivion, rendering them as unplayable as the Sorcerer currently feels. Instead, we should be advocating for a fix to the Sorcerer and other lagging classes to bring them up to par. By doing so, we encourage a diverse and dynamic meta where multiple strategies can coexist and compete.
Arguing over which class is the best and calling for nerfs only perpetuates the problem. We need to shift our focus to fostering a balanced and fair playing field where every class can shine. Only then can we achieve a truly engaging and competitive game experience.
Let’s not forget that at the heart of MMORPGs is the joy of choice and the thrill of strategic diversity. A game where one class reigns supreme is not only unbalanced—it’s fundamentally at odds with the spirit of what makes MMORPGs so captivating.
Well there is a problem there that extends further than class balance. They added the pit. They have to make it possible to climb a reasonable amount of pit levels. Maybe not all 200 levels but I’d say at least 170. Otherwise those levels are pointless to have. That means it has to be possible to be powerful enough to do so. Most people right now probably don’t even hit level 100.
They can’t make the tormented bosses pit 170+ difficulty because then pretty much no one would be able to kill them. This game isn’t made for 1 percenters. It never will be. So when people gear up those bosses are going to get “one shot” no matter what.
The only other option would be to lessen player power and nerf the pit to the ground but then the top players have nothing.
It’s the same problem world bosses have. They made them to be able to kill while leveling. Well power at level 60-70 in wt4 is far different than power at 100. Hence the world boss one shots. Really the only feasible answer is to create yet another end game level of world bosses and tormented bosses made for extreme top end gear. That gets kind of redundant.
Spoiler alert ( or not) : Blizzard is bad at maths ( They proved it on multiple level)
So i wouldn’t expect any class balance in S… ever
That’s sad, but one has to accept the truth.
this argument is so blatantly ignoring that those 170 sorc clears are made by the same 1% elitist players that are ur arguments on barb. Also do you ever even tried to make that build, it costs u 100reds of billion gold, so im sure all sorc players can easily do it. And its one of the most cancerous playstyles u can do, it can only kill 1 Boss in the Pit, other Bosses they just reset and try to find it again. It needs adds to even function. And that is your example of a good Sorc Build? And im not even mentioning that Shatter is still double/triple dipping with weird mechanics and needs a fix since forever.
Beautifully put. However, just to be clear, I am not calling out for nerfs. I am calling out for equal opportunities. As a necro main, I don’t want to make a choice between equipping a unique or an aspect when there are other classes in the game that can equipt 3+ mythic unique weapons. Is not fair play. I strongly believe that in order to achieve the healthy game environment you mention, every class needs by default equal opportunities to succeed in all content. IMO, the best solution is to have the same mathematical constants. This also applies to equal additive and multiplicative capacity at offence and defence across our skill trees and paragons. These equations can be factored in many different ways as long as they resolve in a similar probability range. Instead of further capping our crafting potential and nerfing builds/classes to the oblivion.
Edit: Necros have been nerfed with an all-in-one copy-paste build. Sorcs have been basically erased. Druids yet again, have been left mediocre. It is time. Blizzard needs to pay attention because they have competition, and we are all in this together pretending something we are not, to fulfil a fantasy and have fun. In what world would I want to pretend to be something weak and generic? I love Diablo, the importance of the game in the genre and the amazing graphics, but if they keep insisting for us to ignore all these problems just because of who they are and what they represent, I think it is time for a wake up call.
How can players be more constructive and smarter than devs? What are class designers doing right now on bliz? Enjoying pool party on sunday evening? lmao they should apply every feedbacks this thread offered, and still have time for bbq party or what? Are they even trying to fix this unfair balance while inviting youtubers for their new class? This is a huge comedy