This is as far as I know my very first post like this, and I am not the top 1% so forgive me if it is not relatable. I am however a long time player of every diablo game and many other ARPG’s. It is not my intent to waste anyone’s time. I just wanted to express my immeasurable disappointment and perhaps some of you can relate. I have not really looked through many posts but I have seen some youtube videos etc and understand that this may get lost in an absolute SEA of feedback. That’s okay.
My first 100 was a druid, my sorc is lvl 90, i have a lvl 52 rogue, a lvl 72 necro, and a level 45 barb. So I have played the least popular class followed by the most popular class, which may lend itself towards understanding my experience with this game.
The game is good, it was worth my money, so this post isn’t really about that- it is mostly a post about the design philosophy which having played many games , and arpg’s specifically, seems nearly sociopathic- which is certainly a reflection of the current AAA market.
In a recent video about changes in WoW it was stated “players never do what you expect them to” it is in this video with asmon : A NEW Era For WoW - Aѕmongold Reacts - YouTube
In the past, and I cannot find the video- this was a much longer time ago and again I believe that the context was changes that were coming to wow it was stated (paraphrased) “we do not want players being able to spec into just one ability or to mostly be passive and achieve victory, we don’t think that’s very fun.”
You’re the experts on developing a game, I think it’s very clear that you are not experts one what players find fun. I think classic wow’s success is an example of how a lot of the older design choices- while not necessarily clean or perfect, were a more successful version of whatever you’re trying to build now.
I understand that the context is different because it is wow, a true MMO rpg- but it seems fairly obvious that this design philosophy is intertwined into every aspect of what Blizzard does- the hallmarks can be seen in every single game they have created from scratch after a certain era.
It seems obvious at least in the context of diablo 4, that you intend players to enjoy the game and have fun- as long as it is the way that you as the developers intended. I am not speaking in terms of exploits or clearly taking advantage of things that work in a clearly unintended way that also do not lend itself to an ARPG- I am talking about the rigid set of rules that you force every single player into.
From a business stand point, it absolutely makes sense to develop a set of rules and then force all things related however tenuously to fit inside of that box, however from a player aspect it is not fun. While this philosophy works for creating a business, it does not work for creating a truly fun and engaging game. With that being said- this is how I know with nearly 100% certainty that whatever new class you’re claiming to be developing for D4 will be more of the same, fun for a minute but at the apex unfun and pointless. Because every class and feature you’ve added to the series since d2 has been exactly that.
Yes, for fun to happen there needs to be friction to overcome. The players need tools to to overcome friction- this does not mean that every single part of your game needs to have a frictional experience. Every single design implemented into this game at every turn of the corner has friction and/or entire roadblocks (sometimes literally) between the player and goal. This is not fun, this is annoying. And when the tools the players are given to overcome the friction and roadblock are ultimately sub par, the lubrication becomes meaningless. When the players ability to overcome the friction you have at every corner begins to get perceived as meaningless, so does your game in its entirety.
Where there isn’t a perceived road block and players begin to have genuine fun with the mechanics of the game, you have ensured to snuff that out on almost instantaneous basis (ruins nerf, nerfed farming in general) with a promise to make it better later. Making it better later is good, but why take away our fun now especially in s0 which may ultimately be meaningless in the long run? The only answer that I as a relatively average player can land on, logically, is that you’re anti player which is a strange position for a game developer to take.
And the result of the nerf and balance changes that you have made (even though it was a very positive change for the overall game) Was pushing players into NM dungeons for all of their content needs, exp, gear, loot- which …again is fine on its face.
But what you basically did with these two changes is say “we want you to have fun! NO ABSOLUTELY NOT LIKE THAT, LIKE THIS! YOU’RE HAVING FUN WRONG”. Needless to say, if the player is having fun, the player is not wrong. And with the statements other development teams have made- I think it’s pretty clear that you don’t really understand what players will do, will want to do, or what causes “fun” to occur. So stuffing us into YOUR BOX isn’t working.
- Basic abilities- all recent games you have created (including overwatch to some extent) have this insane builder /spend design philosophy. It’s frictional, some classes have a way to over come it, some don’t- even the classes that CAN over come it (like sorc) the points in basic abilities become essentially wasted (although it’s cool that you can use the enchantment slot to gain some meaningful power, but now you’re sort of permanently stuck with an enchantment slot wasted). I know this has been harped on- POE, Last Epoch, D2, D1, Grim Dawn, Titan quest, literally all other arpgs have systems that are much better and more fun to play than whatever it is that you’re trying to do here. Stop it. I think the vast majority of players (as an extreme example) would rather these just be meaningful passives without adding a button to their hotbar even if it means a slower early game.
Even in the case of stormclaw druid which is a very powerful end game build that im pretty sure can kill lilith, pressing the claw button STILL doesn’t feel very fun and it’s casting TWO abilities at a higher damage rate and more than doubled lucky hit chance. That’s the builds entire mechanic and pressing the basic ability button still feels BAD.
- Cooldown game play- My understanding is that you think it’s fun because we have some tools to mildly reduce the cool down of abilities making us get back into the action quicker. Especially in higher tier ‘aspirational’ content on druid, in ~90+ im just waiting for my cooldowns between packs any way so…if your point was to make me wait to have fun, mission accomplished. If your point was to make me have fun while waiting…mission failed, and that’s a weird thought to have.
I understand that both of these mechanics are Unique to Diablo 3/4 and maybe that’s because you’re trying to set yourself apart from other arpg’s and you think players will have fun with it. You should let other people tell you what’s fun. Unique does not inherently mean fun. Also, thematically it doesn’t make sense. “YAY IM AN UNKILLABLE GOD CHILD…awww im a mortal piece of trash…YAY IM AN UNKILLABLE GOD CHILD…aww im a mortal piece of trash”
- Pacing- Players want to kill stuff. Wandering around a map thats design purpose is to make you back track feels pointless and unfun. Yes you’ve given us tools to overcome this friction (cool down reduction, move speed, some classes have good movement abilities) This is one of many examples where the tools given to overcome this friction feel pointless, so the mechanic itself feels pointless. It seems your entire design philosophy is to tell the player to wait to have fun, especially considering the nerfs to normal /kill all mechanics in conjunction.
This does not mean players want a linear map, that’s also unfun. Maybe to address your design philosophy on these types of mechanics in general-
YOU’RE TELLING ME…that I can port to uber lilith and get attempts in in the same 30 seconds that I port to the way point but to kill “Generic Demon Lightning Priest #30” I have to find some sort of half /half human bull that for some reason can burrow underground …times three? And then I can go kill Generic Demon Lightning Priest #30?
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Trading- stop being lazy.
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Chase uniques- some players may call these chase uniques. Its hard for people to understand very large numbers inherently. These are not chase uniques these are a lottery (with current info at best guess it’s a lotteryx3ish -the best guess math may not be very accurate)- and it makes sense that that doesn’t mean anything to a lot of players because there’s a lot of people that buy lottery tickets. You have not given us tools to overcome this friction (no trading, no meaningful magic find, higher tier dungeons are pointless, uber lilith doesnt drop more than Butcher McRandomspawn does).
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The last point I want to try to make and may also be unpopular- I’m not sure- but-
Passives- I feel like a large portion of the gaming population finds the pursuit of being a passive unkillable god fun. Some of the most popular poe builds and videos of all time are showcasing builds where the player only need cast one ability- or the player only needs to get hit- or the player could literally afk and clear a map.
This design philosophy of “the player needs to be consciously engaged in every aspect of the game play or they won’t understand it and it will not be fun” is 100% wrong, You can tell the WoW team I said that, too.
D2 Paladin aura builds were -fun- and unique. Poe auras are fun. These things are fun for many of the same reasons that Minion Builds are fun. the “I killed the thing without any effort on my part” is -fun-.
D4 is a fundamentally great foundation for something that can be this generations truly god tier game. It’s just not going to get there with what your design team “thinks players will have fun with”.