I think Blizz totally misunderstood what fans meant when we said we wanted D4 leveling to be like D2.
Having 1-100 take a long time was good imo, as long as you don’t lock SO MUCH power behind the later levels (paragon points).
D2 did it best. 99 was there to grind to for prestige, but there wasn’t much difference in power between a level 80 and a 99, You were just getting some stat points. You also made very incremental progress towards a larger goal every play session (feels good). Most ppl never bothered, but it was there for the grinders that wanted it.
At D4 launch you got paragon points for each level that are used to unlock massive amounts of power in the paragon board. This lead everyone to feel like they not only need to get to level 100, but need to rush there asap. (doesnt feel good)
They could still revert to this type of leveling as long as they award a paragon points sooner. This would prob require a rework of paragon boards/system, but imo would be worth it.
Maybe if they front-loaded the paragon points? Get more early on but let them taper off the closer you get to 100. For example: 10 points per-level at 50 then scale it down to 1 from 90 onward.
Note that the numbers are arbitrary to demonstrate the idea.
Never saw a point to prolonging the process myself, especially when the endgame opens up upon reaching max level in D4. Now it didn’t used to be this way, and it made sense for D2 to do it that way. Considering the fact there was no endgame in D2 what so ever.
Anything beyond beating the game on Hell difficulty was just you having fun with a beefed out character that was overpowered due to finding the right gear, or constantly grinding for more gear to run the bosses all over again ad nauseam.
D4 has the Pits that are at least increasingly harder and require you to actually grind out materials to upgrade your gear if you so choose. D2 never had ever increasing difficulty to the point where you couldn’t defeat the whole game without good gear. Hell there’s people who have literally beat all difficulties of D2 on a naked character.
If that’s not the epitome of easy mode I don’t know what is. You definitely can’t do that in D3 or D4. Regardless, good luck in your crusade. Stranger things have happened before after all.
Below is a respone I got from someone on a diff platform. I feel the same way they do and couldn;t say it better myself so I’ll just paste it.
"I pretty much instantly lose motivation after hitting 100 and I want to start another class, and that happens in 1 or 2 days. That or just camp trade discord…
If I kept earning small amounts of xp but it’s not necessary for viability of any build, it will be healthy for the game and motivate me to keep playing. In D2 I can be lvl 93 and get excited for tmr because I’ll farm another quarter of a level. In d4 it’s like… playing tmr a whole day may not improve my char at all, so why keep playing?"
I don’t know why people keep asking for D2 features and ideas, being as they haven’t implemented any of them. It should be known by now that they are not going that direction with anything in the game. It’s been mostly D3, the most successful game in the franchise, whether we like it or not.
So you and that other person are grinders. However both of you are exp grinders and not gear grinders, which is what D4 turns into. D3 also offers this exp grind as well in the form of unlimited paragon.
Not that it’s a bad thing, it’s just obvious this game will never be the exp grind you want it to be. I would venture to say you are also in the minority to want to constantly inch your way to the level cap. Logging in for minuscule amounts of exp a day, so maybe 6 months later you might hit the cap.
D4 is much faster paced, actually has seasonal content, and resets every 3 months accordingly. Makes sense to have the leveling process faster when time is limited. D2 by comparison resets their ladders once a year if you’re lucky.
I never thought about this way. It does make sense, honestly. If you put paragon points up to max lvl, then the average player will want to absolutely get there and THEN start min/maxing. Which is the exact opposite of what they said they wanted for the player to do
So, if in theory we started getting paragon points sooner at lvl30 and then stopped getting them at lvl80, it should solve this issue and still keep the D2 style of leveling experience.
Honestly, another reason why they don’t understand D2 systems or they fail to adapt them.
It takes like 6-8 hours to hit level 100 in D4 atm. I mean at that point why even have leveling? Just start everyone at 100.
The main reason why I can see someone wanting to get to level 100 is the power that comes from paragon board. Remove the need to reach 100 to fully unlock your character’s power potential/build and you’re just left w/ ppl that don’t want anything that could differentiate them from ppl who put more time into the game. Am I missing something? Is there any other reason to want to reach 100 so incredibly quick other than the paragon board power? You can wear 925 gear well before 100 and I’m pretty sure pit isn’t locked behind level 100 but requires you to clear a certain NMD tier number.
D3 paragon gave you infinite power increase. That isn’t what I want. Like I said, there was no reason to bother getting to level 99 in D2 other than prestige, bc you got basically nothing that would make you more powerful than someone level 80. It wasn’t necessary, like level 100 in D4 is. Leveling in Diablo2 IS actually quick, except for the last few levels.
Also, D2R ladder resets are around 3 months last time I checked.
Don’t give them more ideas. They might misunderstand and lock leveling behind the pit. Players gain 1 level for every 2 levels of the pit. So, a player can only reach level 100 by completing pit level 200.
You can start the Pit as soon as you complete a level 45 NMD. That’s the only requirement. Which obviously can be done much sooner than level 100 depending on build/class. I don’t see any issues with this though.
Reaching 100 comes with the benefit of completing your build, but not your gear. The game switches gears (not a pun) to go from one focus point to the next. A natural progression if you will.
D2 never offered this. You got to a reasonable level, grinded gear, then stopped when you got bored. Where as D4 is more about reaching the level cap, then grinding better gear, getting bored and stopping.
Different designs entirely. Again I don’t see them changing this methodology either, considering the fact with every patch beyond S1, they’ve made the leveling process faster and faster.
Four to 5 months on average.
Season 1: April 28, 2022
Season 2: October 6, 2022
Season 3: January 25, 2023
Season 4: May 4, 2023
Season 5: September 28, 2023
Season 6: February 22, 2024
Season 7: May 23, 2024
Rather sporadic now that I’m looking at it. On average though you’ve had more time to level in D2R between seasons.
Leveling in role playing games is fine. Enjoying stories and quests is great. Pointy clicky twitch action rpgs? Not so much. The fun starts at lvl cap here. Not ends.
I agree with you, not to the title but with the general idea of the journey to max level be something that is basically always there giving you sense of progression, but the max level itself is more prestige and an aspirational challenge.
I disagree with the title because even though the original levelling was a problem, not due the levelling curve itself but because how itemisation and world tiers worked at the time, Blizz basically reacted to this feedback and others asking for endgame now. So we ended up with what we have now, basically players demand.
However, there is hope. This game is facing some of the same problem cycles as D3, the problem you are reporting is exactly what made paragons there. So if the game continues as is (this can change with the expansion and they kind of fixes it there) given 2-3 more seasons and more people will feel like the same, as if there are no progression in their characters itself.
There lies the hopes and the fear, the fear is we end up with some infinite levelling system, the hope is that they do something different, more in line with what you said or just something else. The good news, for the best or for the worst, is that this D4 team is not just using D3 or past diablos solutions old problems, even when they do this they kind of adds some twists to it and make some changes so it better adapt to their vision of the game.
So here is where I think there is a chance we get some good and more organic than pit numbers for endgame meta progression.
