Barrage feels horrible in every way

Rogue
1

I really hope next season is the MASSIVE rogue rework, because that’s what it needs.

Things that need serious redesign consideration:

Imbuements (specifically no imbue builds)
Specializations (combo points way to strong compared to inner sight/preparation)
Basic and Core marksman skills (more specifically Barrage/Forceful Arrow)
Most of the skill tree passives (frigid finesse required in every build)
Paragon Boards (most unique passives are boring/unfun to use)
All 3 Unique Bows (Especially Windforce, needs a redesign)

I can’t speak to melee rogue, but i’ve heard its in shambles as well.

WHERE IS MULTISHOT???

1 Like
2

Barrage is multishot and it doesn’t feel bad at all. You know when you use it you don’t actually have to do the animation right? It creates a clone to do it. So you attack and move and attack and dash and attack and never stand still through the animation.

3

Yes I’m well aware of the animation, thats actually one of the awful parts of it. There’s no weight behind it at all.
Go look at the animation of Multishot on D3, your character actually has massive recoil when you use it, and the sound is very satisfying.
Imagine playing a bow character and just summoning a mirage to do the attack while you move around. Awful

And when I say it feels awful, its not just the animation.
It’s the entire skill from animation and vfx, to functionality and mechanics.

There’s nowhere near enough arrows, the damage is absolutely horrendrous, and an aspect was just added almost 1 year into the games existence that gives it ONE PIERCE. ONE.

Also, I love how multishot is supposed to be a RANGED skill, you know just like every other diablo title and video game ever created.
You must be a big fan of melee rogue because that’s the only way the skill functions.

I’ve got a challenge for you, go play Barrage in pit 60-70, no combo points, and no imbuement.
Use Inner Sight like myself, and report back with your crazy screen wide clear and absolutely bonkers single target boss killing potential.

And thats an entire other problem, Barrage needs its shotgunning removed, so it can be buffed substantially to function as a clear skill.
Then add an aspect, or rework one of the skill tree upgrades so it does more damage when hitting one target.

They already solved this problem in D3, many many years ago and somehow they’ve repeated the same mistake all over again.

1 Like
4

Im really tired of building up 3 combopoints before every core attack and always manage imbuements. There are many other skills that are more fun to have in the actionbar.

1 Like
5

Yup, its just unfun gameplay and its why I’ll always play Inner Sight over CP or Prep. I’m not trying to play a minigame within a game.
I just want to play an archer that has high mobility, uses multishot, and has a single target boss killing skill. Whether that’s a multishot augment or a seperate skill doesnt matter to me.

Dual core with Rapidfire was the answer but now you’re forced to take caltrops and frigid finesse if you want to even be able to get into pit 60, otherwise you’re completely gated out of the last stages of masterworking that require neathiron.

2 Likes
6

Found your problem. Lmao imagine actually liking that game :face_vomiting:

Barrage isn’t about trying to pierce it’s about ricochets, which is why crits and hitting vulnerable mobs ricochet and why it’s amazing OG aspect buffs it’s ability to chain and destroy things.

Only against bosses and only if you must get maximum damage every hit, which honestly isn’t necessary. If you can’t handle the heat then back up a bit and take sightly longer.

Lmao. “I want to intentionally nerf myself just so I can complain”. You’re a joke. Barrage is one of the best skills to combine with imbuements because it hits so much per attack. It’s insane to not want to use imbuement with barrage.

I played barrage for the majority of this season so far, I just recently changed my build to try other things since I played so much barrage previously.

:face_vomiting::face_vomiting::face_vomiting::face_vomiting::face_vomiting:

7

Good contribution to the design discussion, still doesn’t refute my point.

I really don’t understand why you’re stating obvious facts that anyone who plays the skill knows. Ricochet still doesn’t even come close to the clear of D2/D3 multishot, but you havent played those games I assume.

No, its not “only against bosses”, and with that statement right there, I can tell you haven’t played barrage in difficult content. “Only if you must get maximum damage every hit”.
That’s the only way the skill does damage, are we playing the same game?

Again, nobody should have to use imbuements. Remember the “play your way” statement they were throwing around pre-release/launch?
That was a complete lie and tons of people have been talking about their distaste of imbuements since the closed beta. It was obvious from the first unlock of imbues they were functionally bad design and did not fit with the gameplay at all.

Barrage also is not the best skill with imbuements. It hits 5 times, again, are we playing the same game?

Nice

Great contribution

1 Like
8

When there is a giant pack of mobs in front of you, you can be pretty far away as the arrows will hit a bunch of different mobs and chain around and kill everything. So yes, only against bosses, because everything else has density so your arrows will hit SOMETHING when you’re at a distance.

You don’t have to, but not using them with barrage is extremely stupid as they are extremely powerful and synergize extremely well with the skill.

If your barrage is only hitting 5 times you are doing something extremely wrong.

D2 is my most played game of all time. D3 is garbage and not worth talking about.

9

Again, even with 50% crit, it will not clear entire 30+ mob packs. In open world sure, barrage is fine, but the game has higher difficulty than just helltides and whispers.

When there are synergies for pure physical damage in glyphs, clearly you can choose to not use them.
All Basic/Core skills are physical base as well.

Barrage shoots 5 arrows, if you are running Branching Volleys on the amulet, you will not get the splitting of arrows from ricochets 100% of the time, creating inconsistency and reducing clear significantly.
Something Multishot never had to worry about.

Nice. D3 is absolutely worth talking about because of my previous point.
Also there are plenty of lessons of what not to do as well, so again, its worth talking about.

10

I think Barrage the skill itself and aspects are fine for the most part, it just needs buffs/fixes to things like Inner Sight and/or CQC and/or Shadow Clone to pump it’s performance.

11

But if it is on your 2h it’s 100% chance and 160% damage. Making ricochets significantly more effective than the initial shots, which is really strong, and hits a lot of mobs. You can explode an entire screen of mobs with the right build.

12

There are far stronger options on the weapon slot, like edgemaster.

13

:man_facepalming::man_facepalming::man_facepalming:

20characters

14

Not sure why you’re facepalming, its literally a fact.

Once you solve resource issues, you’re at 90-100% energy.
Ya lemme just give up a 40% more multiplier, for a 10% increased chance to get 2 additional arrows after a ricochet.

You wanna see your boss damage plummet even more, go ahead and put branching volleys on your weapon.

15

yup, the worst part is, that it’s basically a melee range skill (if you want to do any damage at all). it needs way more initial arrows or better, some way to controll how wide the cone is, to use it as a marksman skill (like intended).

16

if D3 did one thing exactly right, it’s how skills feel und fluidity.

17

I agree. D2 was awful in that regard (ranged physical combat only). A brief history is as follows (well, brief for a game that has existed for over a quarter of a century):

I first played a rogue in D1 in a legit clan, then moved on to Everquest when it was released, with friends I met in D1.

By the time D2 was released, Evercrack addiction had set in for all of them, except another D1 player and me. I played an amazon, which was a javelin thrower, which was the closest thing there was to a D1 rogue.

The amazon was awful compared to the D1 rogue. The D2 story was great - the cutscenes from would have made a lot better movie than WoW.

D3 got off to a bad start with its auction house and its version of the D1 rogue was the demon hunter, which were ranged at release until the Shadow subclass was released, much later.

Eventually, the D3 Seasons brought back some of the feel of the phat lewt romp that D1 was. However, in D3, most of time the demon hunter was an underdog and not as welcome in groups as other classes.

So when D4 was released, I was very disappointed that ranged rogues were not viable, as if the new generation of programmers had never played a D1 rogue, but focused on the D&D type rogue instead.

I quit after Season 2, but upon my return a few days ago, I was delighted to see ranged rogue builds not only viable, but doing well.

Then the rapid fire nerf/bug occurred the next day.

18

You can play your way, doesnt mean its going to clear the most difficult content if you’re nerfing yourself by not using fundamentally implemented skills in which the entire class is based on, as its literally in the class descriptions on the site.

I miss multishot, but welcome the new design and ability load. Smashing 1 button and having the rest on auto cast got old fast. Pen shot spread is more along the lines of old MS, but youre not getting away from imbues regardless

19

Pen shot is the only ranged rogue build that feels good to play with combo points.
With multiple + to imbue casts on jewelry, you have 100% uptime on imbues, still sucks your forced to use them though.

Imbues just need to be permanent buffs that reserve a flat amount of energy, which would make flat resource rolls on gear more desirable.