and what i mean by that is the games both started out trash WildStar made pour decisions that led to its demise by not fixing bugs and the core game
but ESO did take the time to fix the core game and bugs and it survived and became amazing.
so to me so far we are looking like a WildStar
you know the world was going to end in the 60’s-80’s by nuclear holocaust, and during 2000 when the computers were going to go nuts, and mayan calander something or other. i lived through most of that, and none of i came true. maybe just maybe d4 will survive too, even though there is a lot of nay sayers and fear mongering because its not what they want it to be now. some things need time to grow into their own. hope for the best prepare for the worst. 
i have 4000 hours in eso. they have made 99% of content trivial. it has massive problems. the stories are great, though. It also has the worst monetization i have seen in a western mmo. Way worse then d4
I wanted to like ESo, but it has the WORST combat I have ever seen in an MMo, I feel like Im ice skating on butter, and none of my seplls/attacks have any weight to them, like Im hitting things with a pool noodle.
I disagree that ESO is awesome, though I do agree that it survived. For me, ESO classes are pretty meaningless. They seem to play the same with only two types, Stamina based or Magic Based. I tried to get into the game, trying varying classes but they all seemed similar in feel, even down to me being able to place in the type of skills I used in the same spot and not having to really adjust my play style when I chose a different class within the Stamina/Magic dichotomy.
Am i the only one who misses wildstar? That game had fun combat
we are neither.
This game is developed around pleasing the real customer. (shareholders)
We are getting forced to run in circles in a hamster wheel. There was no intention ever to make an enjoyable game for the players from begin with, the intention is that people waste as much time as possible so that a “playtime statistic” that pleases the shareholders is being generated/reached.
Diablo IV is single handedly the worst game ever released by blizzard, but its also the most sold and most successful ever released. Question yourself how is this possible?
if you are going only by metacritic then that would be warcraft 3 reforged so still not d4. If you go by pretty much any other metric then the game is a massive success like it or not
i loved wildstar 
bugs got fixed and it had endgame raids which were funny and hard
im going by gameplay, not bought critiques/reviews or sells. And its my opinion, not a fact, everyone has to judge for himself.
But ive never ever been forced to waste half of my playtime to stay in town to search for potential upgrades in rare items, which are designed in a specific way that it also takes aslong time as possible to do so. (as an example, there is way more and deeper mechanics that make no sense at all other than keeping you playing)
yeah you don’t need to do that. why would you do that?
Because ARPGs are about getting loot, they are designed to grow your character with it, its part of the genre. If there would be a working lootsystem we wouldnt even have to talk about this, but there is none, on purpose.
If we want to grow our chars to be stronger we have to pick up those rare items and search for potential upgrades. There is no way around it.
Things that are manipulated into forcing you into more Playtime with items:
all of this forces you, if you want to play the game at all, to spend more time and has no other purpose.
of course you can. i’ve spent so much of my playtime in poe trying to get items with the perfect stats and sockets/links. you can be as obsessive with gear as you want. you don’t need to but you can
well you can always argue that you arent forced into anything bc, nobody forces you to play at all. But that is missing the point, the game is designed to slow you down as much as possible for no other reason than to generate a playtime statistic… if it wouldnt be on purpose they’d fix itemization, which is one of the most major complains about the game really fast, would had been done already.
Yes. But donation based (korean) games are not fun in total
I have been playing ESO since 2014 and for me personally, that is the sign of a good game… something that keeps you coming back for years. I was the same with WOW which I started playing with vanilla and played for many years before hanging up my spurs.
D4 I am still playing because I think I am a little OCD and just want to get my character to L100 & finalise the season. I do have doubts that I will keep playing though after that and that means it will be the shortest playing game I have ever had. That makes it the worst game I have played.
I am hoping that up the track they will get their act together & come up with something that makes me want to come back. But at the moment it is feeling like money down the dran.
a worse verson if Diablo Immortal , come to think if it , Immortal. has gemtabs, end game, clan battles 12 party raids. dungons , Bosses with mechanics. and items space !!!
And a toon of loot to collect. and are getting content updates. pretty often.
and that game dosent cost 99 usd
We got Duped. and lied to. Admam Jackson and Joe shelly promised endgame so where is it. you cant even type in “endgame” in the chat Campfire. because they have blocked all questions about it. well Done Blizzard im never going to by a game from you ever again , Just a buch of Hype with Zero depth. King 2.0
Widstar catered to elitists, that’s why it suffered its fate it did. They tried to base its content off of what the top % of WoW players wanted and failed miserably.
Or maybe ESO got the time from the players?
Maybe that makes the difference too.
I wouldn’t say Wildstar core game wasn’t trash, what made the game fail was the devs stubbornness in trying to make everything “hardcore” and it was released at a time when everyone still wanted to play WoW. If it released now and was a casual MMO, it would do pretty well imho
ESO, while started poor, actually made active efforts to improve the game and showed it’s players that. Also, ESO was Bethesdas first ever MMO if I’m correct
The best comparison for me is Warhammer Dark Tide. A franchise that had several past games which had expanded on the last in great ways, but with Dark Tide decided to start from scratch removing all the great ideas and throwing all the things they learned over the years and the community loved from their past games out the window, just like D4.
So the game came out half-finished missing basic features at full price. The community spoke up, the devs gave the same line blizz does “We hear your feedback”, making changes that just were all over the place. The game went from 100k+ to 2 -3k.