The reference of my experience is only to encourage you to trust me that the concept is tested already in similar game scenario. Otherwise people would not even bother finish my post, trust me mate, it’s how online works. If I take any pride making such statements it is my only problem, I doubt it will harm anyone else in the world, so don’t pay much attention to it. It is free-speech world and there are folks who pretend to be Jesus himself, and honestly we can’t do much about it, but just pass on.
Repeat after me: “Freedom of speech does not mean I can say what I want without consequences, criticism, or ridicule”
Now, I don’t see much reason why you bite me, but w/e, I guess you win.
My point was that if an idea is good it will stand on it’s own merits. Your experience as a modder has no consequence on the quality of the idea.
A game developer of 20 years can come and post the dumbest thing or a literal random guy on the internet can post the best idea. All that matters is the concept.
I’ll just agree the items in diablo don’t feel exciting idk.
I’ll play wow classic that isn’t arpg and do that specific questline to get Thrash blade the item will feel great… Diablo 4 items are just well thanks ig
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Couldn’t make it all the way through your post, this seems overly convoluted and confusing.
I think you’ve missed a point about gearing though.
at levels 1 through 10 all the gear you’re getting is basically the same. Just the armor or damage stat, if you’re lucky you get something with 1 stat attribute.
10 through 20 you might get gear with 2 stat attributes.
20 through 30 you might find legendaries, and so on…
So your list of the different types of gear completely ignores this fact to make it look like when something drops you have to figure out if it’s type 1, 2, 3 or whatever, and that’s simply not the case.
At level 100, all gear you get will be 925 ancestral rare, legendary, or unique.
Meaning it’s going to have 3 rare affixes, 4 legendary affixes, or 4 unique affixes.
They could have 0 to 4 greater affixes.
So you literally have 1 choice to make.
Is this item with its greater affixes better than the one item that i’ve already got?
If it doesn’t have greater affixes, it’s trash.
If it doesn’t have as many or better greater affixes than what you have equipped, it’s trash.
If it’s legendary, then there’s a good chance assuming it also has greater affixes that its better than any rare you might have equipped (even with an aspect).
I don’t see how your analysis of the gear makes any sense for S4, or how your ideas improve anything. If anything they make it worse and more confusing, and make more of the gear that drops useless.
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I also shared more ideas on the forums. In none of them I stated who I am and stuff of that sort, because they were from the standpoint of a player. For this post I carefully examined what would be the “so much important thing” that needs to be redesigned and what approach should be taken in order to revitalize the gaming experience. So my conclusion after almost one year of playing was:
A: Items are he most important part to be worked on, because they are having little to no identity between themselves and it break the proper connection of the whole experience.
B: In order to fix that, the item lore must be redesigned as completely different system.
And because of the gratitude of the change needed, almost nobody would even consider it as viable. Hence I added the part where I explain that I’ve done this and I know For Sure it will work well, if executed with the care needed.
I expect the interested to ask me direct logical questions in order to develop this topic and the concept in more normal manner. It is very complicated matter, it deserves a lot of posts between the community to reach any good shape and be presented to any random diablo player in plain words.
I acted purposefully with boldness, even as expecting to attract some of the lower vibes around. This is all in the plan to develop deep focus of the community to a topic which requires more attention if it is about to become of any value to the community.
You can focus on me, or not, it does not matter, focus is gathered and skills with greater power could be casted now. So let’s see how it goes, if people care about Diablo franchise, they will think rationally of what I say and maybe even evolve of the topic themselves.
You think very highly of yourself.
Items are not the most important part to be worked on, they’ve already done that and it is good.
Having little to no identity is not an issue, the identity of items comes from their aspects and unique powers, and that’s more than sufficient.
It doesn’t break anything.
You haven’t actually provided any insight to what must be fixed, so stating “in order to fix that” is meaningless… Fix what?
The item lore? They’re items, the vast majority of items have no lore, and need no lore, they’re just items. What lore does exist doesn’t need to be re-designed, and the system doesn’t need to completely change.
Either you don’t know what the words you’re using mean, or you’ve got an extremely skewed (and incorrect) view of what the game and the itemization is, that what you’re posting just comes across as pure nonsense.
Btw, pretty sure you’re not supposed to link to your other topics, it’s self promoting and shows that you’ve created multiple topics about the same thing. That alone is grounds for having these threads all removed.
Try to stick to 1 topic.
The discussion regarding itemization is not a deep one to be honest. It was bad and now it’s changed to be better. It will not change again any time soon. It took them one year to change to what will have in season 4.
Be realistic with your expectations. And to be completely honest your ideas are just that, your ideas. They will not save the game or improve it in a meaningful way because there are just too many cogs in place that will need changing. A simple change to itemization will not fix the numerous other issues. I agree it’s a start but right now, it’s just bad timing since it’s been already done.
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Blizzard just needs to unleash its own version of GUTS and let the modders do their work. Forget seasons and a cash shop. Just sell expansions.
If you look at the overall picture the item should look like:
Normal: High damage or armor, used mostly for leveling and speedrunning when there are not much magic and rare dropping for this particular slot. I imagine using several times for few levels Normal items while leveling. Also a specific crafting could be made to utilize Normal items for their high base damage/armor in Nightmare and Torment. Something neat and specific could always be designed for that.
Magic: These items should have very unique magic properties unavailable in any other item qualities. This will make then something similar to normal items, but more fancy as their extra power is not just brute force, but magic excellence. I imply their use similar to Normal items, with slightly higher interest from the player.
OK so here we already solved one HUGE problem in D4. Now the player has reason to PICK normal/magic items for something else than salvage.
Marginal: Marginal item quality is some specific idea I have. It uses less affixes(only2) than Rares(3), but has improved affix power-range and as well it has 75% chance, or so to roll basic stat affix, unlike any other items. So, such an item can roll and in essence will be sought for its stat roll. For example if a rare comes you at specific level with +8-16 to Willpower and has 5% to roll that stat the Marginal should come to you with +16-24to Willpower at the same level and has 18% to roll that stat. This is a new item quality which can be further improved as an idea.
Rare: Rares are meant to be the bread and butter of affix generating. They have medium ranges of everything, can receive aspects and in general after being aspected become very powerful items. Not much change about them as of now. It is not needed. However their drop rates should be adjusted accordingly to the game plan. (we need to complete the general concept first to even think about game plan and character developemnment)
Legendary: The legendary items will be hard to find in my view, because I want to make Aspects and their high rolls more rare. I think they are too much common nowadays. Also the legendary could come with only one very strong affix, and a better option will be most of the times to use a Rare item and its Aspect. Aspects themselves are amazing designs for the gameplay, I like how they were introduced to the game, but the game is older now and it needs new approach imho.
Uniques: Not big change to these. Just increase their numbers several times. I would like to see uniques from lvl 15, each with its style and kink, but maybe a tad less powerful (some, other maybe even more powerful)
Sets: A mandatory item quality to be added to the game. 2piece sets, 3piece sets, 4 piece sets, and even maybe one very late game 5 piece sets per class. Their set bonuses can work based on different conditional ideas (insert your imagination here).
Craft-based: An item quality produced by crafting systems, there might be several type of such items. This idea will be now explored in the upcoming patch, hence I’d keep it much more open for developemnment and design.
So here you already can see the picture is much more different than just having item A having X times more powers of (the same type) compared to having different items having close to each other powers but each power is different from the other. Player who want to have wild wild fun and run only with Normal items or maybe only Marginal or anything else, all will be possible and all will behave different from the other, while if balanced well, all will fit seemingly well in the player's gameplay. How many have asked for a reason to re-roll new character each season. No I say, now you can re-roll 5 character each season and still feel the game fresh!
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Great topic. I agree heavily in that the previously rare and powerful quality of a Unique item in Diablo II has been pared down to “imprint this power onto every piece of gear” as something to be taken for granted.
This is also an insult to the items themselves. Sandstorm Trek? It’s a Unique pair of boots? No problem. Just break it down and slap that quality onto a hat. Or a ring. Nobody cares. This is about optimizing your paper doll. Not about warriors wielding items of myth.
Back on topic, what is the difference between 3 Rare, 3 Magic, 2 Unique, 2 Aspected vs 10 Aspected? Well, you have different things to look for when they drop. Different colors mean different desires being potentially fulfilled. This leads to excitement.
The current system is very soulless. You simply find the items with the stats you need, and you imprint them with the appropriate Aspect, occasionally using a Unique or 2. And it’s not this simple matter of whether “rares should or should not be used in endgame”, it’s about engaging the player in decision making as they see items drop.
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Yeah, itemization is in a bad state.
Rare items need to be competitive with legendaries and uniques.
And not just as a crafting material for uniques (imprinting). Rares should be good on their own.
They simply need to have more affixes on them than legendaries do.
One solution, if they absolutely want to keep the concept Imprinting Rare items, could be that Rares dropped with 5 affixes, but if you Imprint a legendary on it, two of the affixes are removed. So Rares have at least 2 more affixes than legendaries, to compensate for not having the stronger Aspect affixes.
Overall, any and all item types that can drop at a given point, should have the potential to be best in slot for a specific use-case.
Indeed. It devalues items as a concept, and just become a boring minmaxing scheme.
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Thanks guys for the replies, that is what I am trying to do, if we have enough people coming and sharing their minds on the matter - exactly how things should look like, we are definitely working on the right path!
Probably the real solution shall be found there within the mix of ideas and common cognizance!
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I still don’t understand what it is with some of you people and rare items. Is this just another one of these things that was done before or elsewhere and you want it? Why should rare items be relevant beyond having better affixes and being upgradable with an aspect to a legendary? The weird stuff people get hung up on confuses me.
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It is about the types of items that are possible to create in a game.
The reason Rares tend to be mentioned, more than Magic items or whatever, is that Rares are the main randomized item type (magic items are basically just a sub-set of that).
While Uniques are pre-designed. You cant replace Rares with Uniques, since they represent completely different kinds of item types.
Legendaries are basically a mix between Rare and Unique, not fulfilling the purpose of either. Legedaries could be removed, since the two item types that are mixed into it already exists, but Rares and Uniques can’t be replaced.
Randomized items are the backbone of A-RPGs, due to the millions of permutations they offer. Unlike Uniques. When Rare items are missing from the game, a main part of itemization is missing.
It is obviously not about Rares as a name. They could be called anything. Have any color.
It is about having the different types of items that can exist. In a genre where itemization is a big part of the overall game.
Note; it was the same in Diablo 3, just the other way around. Uniques, as in static, predesigned items, were missing.
Your thinking is contrived. Legendaries are rares with an aspect. Consequently they supersede rares while being different from uniques. You can still look for both rares and legendaries given your ability to place aspects.
As for randomization and combinations, you guys drove that out of the game with what you asked for in season four. The randomization is being shifted onto successive upgrades where twerps can get sweaty over numbers that barely matter, and put potentially a lot of senseless time into trying to reach maximums. I think that was the gist of the changes.
D3 has uniques. Every single legendary that drops can only drop that power on that slot, it is unique in that sense. The stats may not be unique, but the power and slot is.
You can’t for example slap a CoE on your belt, or your amulet, or off-hand etc…
That’s where D4 is a little different. You CAN slap legendary powers in virtually any slot, but you ALSO have uniques that are not just unique powers, for dedicated slots, but they also have a fixed set of attributes on them.
This hold up that people have about whites, blues, and yellows being meaningless is confusing. Why does they NEED to be useful outside of providing matts?
Sure, it would be nice if you could find a stacked white item with really high armor, that you can craft stats on to as you please to make your own legendary that’s equivalent to any other legendary, just with a higher armor power.
That’s not really how equipment works in D4 though, it’s not needed, and it would probably be hated by a lot of people.
When it comes to loot hunting, you’re simply looking for legendary items with good stats on them ideally with greater rolls. That’s it.
Yellows allow you to masterwork/temper your legendaries, and can be used while looking for the right legendary, but that’s about it, and that’s all it needs to be.
We don’t need white / blue / yellow items to be more useful than that are. This thread is trying to fix a problem that doesn’t exist with a solution that doesn’t make sense.
I think that currently Rares are taking too much part of the game. Actually they are having such well balanced design that it really makes them “use in all situations” item, but this limits the chances the player to make “hard” decision and have emotional bond with the game. Very hard game is also not ideal, but any game must involve frustration in non-frustrating manner to keep the interest. I’d personally limit the use of rares in the future and add other alternatives.
Hence being a mix between Rares and Uniques, rather than being Uniques.
To offer more itemization options. The vast majority of itemization options are removed, if random items arent a thing, and only predesigned (or half-way predesigned) items exist.
If you absolutely had to remove one item type, it would be better to remove Uniques than Rares. Best to remove Legendaries, since they dont bring anything that Rares and Uniques dont already offer.
Of course, even better not to remove any of them, and just let them all be relevant.
That I wouldn’t agree with. Tbh, white items bring nothing. Since they are effectively nothing. No affixes.
They could be used for crafting, sure, but then they still bring nothing on their own. It is the crafting that makes them into something.
Likewise, as said earlier, Magic items are effectively just a sub-set of Rare items; less affixes, and even if they have increased affix ranges, Rare items could do the same, simply by allowing them to roll the same affix twice.
In the end, the main item types are:
Randomized items (often called Rares)
Static, predesigned items (often called Uniques)
Set items (offering something by using items in combination)
All 3 main types should be around, to have the highest amount of itemization options available to players.
I personally prefer if Blizzard stay away from Set items, since history has shown that they are unbelievably bad at designing Set items. But in theory they would also be interesting to have in an A-RPG.
Uh huh, what are you even talking about.
Exactly.
Rares are becoming even less relevant. Legendaries are becoming even less relevant.
Ripping out a core part of A-RPGs, turning it into some kind of Monster Hunter or whatever it is, where you just create your own items from a list.
Hence not Rares. Like half their power is not randomized, but crafted.
They are no more Rares (as in randomized) than Legendaries in D3 were Uniques (as in static). Just some weird in between (which is completely fine to have, alongside the pure item forms).