A casual player's view on the game

While I realise that this feedback cannot be addressed in the next patch, I feel like I need to share it anyway. Hopefully it can be of use on a bigger time frame.

Over the last few weeks and also through trying out the PTR, I came to realise I love the potential of the game more than the current status of it. It feels to me that the game is geared mostly to highly skilled players with a lot of time on their hands. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it leaves casual players like myself in the dust at times. Let me explain why I feel this way.

While it can be fun to play one of the meta builds from one of the many websites, part of the fun in playing the game is coming up with a build on your own. But all the layers of optimisation that are possible in the game, make it really hard to do this. You need to know all of the class skills (active and passive), all of the complex paragon boards, all of the legendary effects and all temper recipes, in order to figure out what works and what wont. This can become not only a time sink, but also a gold sink, given respeccing costs gold every time you want to change something. The current way tempering works also locks you into a single build, as you need new items if you want to try out new tempers, to see if those work better.
Even when you find something that sort of works, there often is a huge gap between this-fun-little-thing-I-tried and the current meta builds, making end game content even more challenging than it already is.

The late game content is now geared towards being challenging for the best builds (and for the most part I agree with that), however, this makes it sometimes only theoretically possible to complete certain fights, like the Echo of Lillith. Making fights like these part of the seasonal progression (like in season 4), implies that this content is reasonably doable for everyone. But I have still no idea how to best the echo of Lillith if my life depended on it. Most of the time I donā€™t even see the prompts to get out of the way (even after going through YT videoā€™s explaining them to me, I donā€™t see it in the midst of the fight), because Iā€™m too busy trying to kill her. And when I do miraculously see them, Iā€™m too slow to respond.
This makes it feel like I hit a ceiling that is unbreakable. There is no amount of grinding just for gear that I can reasonably do to help me progress there. Which raises the question: is that fight intended to be beatable by everyone? If not, thatā€™s okay, but season 4 seemed to suggest it should be, which is why it frustrates me all the more.

The idea of having Mythic Uniques drop from most content is a great improvement in my mind. It makes it feel like running helltides or collecting Grim Favours stays relevant, but it only solves the gearing part.
What I miss, I guess, is something like the D3 paragon points, where, if something proved too difficult, you could just grind out more levels to gain that extra edge. This could allow less skilled players to beat a difficulty that better players could complete early on. [edit: Iā€™m not saying the old Paragon system was good, just that it kept the possibility/illusion of eventually being able to do something.]
Adding something like that probably requires a huge overhaul of the game, but I could see it having a place. There could even be game modes where this feature would be disabled, so that pure skill could be tested.

Of course I have no illusions that there will ever be a game that can truly be balanced for both casual players and the very best of players. No game can truly get there. But to me, it feels like the best of the best are what the new features, such as the infernal hordes, are geared towards, making me wonder how much longer the game will stay interesting to me.
The ā€œMaybe with 10 more paragon levels I can do this thingā€ is what kept me playing in D3. And I really miss that incremental progression.

7 Likes

Yes, I agree.

As a casual player, itā€™s not really possible to experiance with the different options to maximize the character. For example, why do I have to interrupt my tempering to not lose my previous stats on the next roll? Why can I not save my build for skill testings. Or why is the overboss so much, much harder than the normal version. I assume a casual player has never killed it on their own. Iā€™ve played all the seasons and never killed an overboss. Or why is pit 61 so hard with even I upgraded my item? I thought it is a loot game. So it looks like ā€œtake the right S-tier buildā€ game.

2 Likes

You mean take the right barbarian build? I played all classes, but mostly hardcore necro and I can tell nothing even slightly matches barb. It is a big issue.

6 Likes

The class imbalance is a big issue, too. But it is at least one they are aware of (whether they manage to fix it is another point entirely, but given time it should be manageable).
Iā€™m not sure the imbalance between top tier players and casual players is on their radar, though.

3 Likes

It seems to be. The good thing about top players is finding problems way before anyone else. If them problems get solved fast and adequately, it would be great, though.

I entirely agree with this. I currently play with at least 3 Uber uniques (obtained by crafting)ā€¦ and I still have no chance in hell of beating any of the Torment bosses to complete the season. The rest of my gear is certainly not perfect, but itā€™s all at least 1 GA and has the right stats and tempers for the build I am playing with. Even with all the Uber gear and such, Pit 61-65 is overly difficult when trying to get materials to continue mastercrafting.

Even if I could completely mastercraft all 3 Uber uniques along with all the rest of my gear I still can barely get any of the Torment bosses down past the first tick mark. This means that I will never be able to complete the season goals, as killing a Torment boss is the only thing I have left to be finished.

If the season only required killing a regular Uber boss then I feel it would be reasonable for everyone, yet as it stands now itā€™s simply unfair to a majority of us who will never get to complete this season.

2 Likes

Zir and Duriel are very easy. Try that.

Eh. Should not be. What class and build are are you playing? Very interestingā€¦ Difficulty now begins after 100 on patch 1.4.3.

In fact, maybe itā€™s not that you ā€œcanā€™tā€ defeat those Torment bosses, but that they beat you first. Their special attack will give deadly marks (That Scarlet Demon Debuff right upon your skillbar), It will allow you to receive double and double the damage, no one can survive in that situation for long. Before doing lot off damage u should try to evade or something protect urself from that deadly debuff. When Boss falldown its time to beat it :innocent:.

Or, maybe blizz want you to ā€Socializeā€œ, means Get Group, Go Forum Find Partner, Ask For Help, or someting. Trust me, all you need is the boss-summoning Stygian Stones, and there are plenty of people willing to help you (including me).

1 Like

Zir is not a Tormented boss and no Tormented Duriel is not very easy at all.

Well done and a good writeup, have a few things that I think Iā€™d kinda reply to though tbh

:100:

Imposed hyper-efficiency is never a casual-friendly thing

Yes it is, and whenever I suggest any sort of way how to address this I get attacked. Mainly cause people that like the game as is have an issue with understanding others

After all not surprised cause itā€™s obvious that Blizz wants people to be greedy, super selfish, perhaps somewhat disingenuous, and most of all people who accept flaws in the balance of the game and people that instead of asking for a fix would rather abuse all those flaws and call that ā€œfunā€

I disagree with this part cause makes the game even more into hard labor. The game needs to be restartable-friendly (instead of pushing that extra tick on the conveyor). But hey, whatever ā€œgreasesā€ peopleā€™s wheels

I just donā€™t see how an ā€œextra sequelā€ of all the farm and grind will make the game feel better

Could be if they wanted toā€¦ Nerf the ceiling, cap all the super-stacks/abuses, and then create gear and builds around pros and cons and playstyles with some more determinism instead of total chaos of floatila of billion-like numbers a second while also have people be numb to it

Perhaps is a workaround but I donā€™t see how ā€œplay for 500 more hoursā€ is a good idea, just noā€¦ There must be a better way and a better decision (especially considering casuals donā€™t have a ā€œforeverā€ at their disposal)

1 Like

Zir has its Torment Mode

Tormented Bosses require x3 the amount of materials and x2 ā€Stygian Stones

T-Duriel the first thing is avoid the :poop: that spreads out when it emerges from the ground. Or youā€™ll be debuffed and nomore survive.

But has a tormented version. 27 blood and 2 stones to summonā€¦ He is maybe the easiest.

So thatā€™s super CASUAL PLAYER sureā€¦They fight with their own understanding and their own way, and thatā€™s not a bad thing, they have their fun.

That does not matter as he is not one of the season completion objectives. To finish the season we have to be able to beat Uber Lilith, Tormented Duriel, or Tormented Andariel and I cannot do any of those 3, nor can my friend who also wants to finish the season. I know for a fact I am not the only one either. Making killing one of those 3 a requirement is simply wrong and unfair to a large number of us players.

1 Like

Thatā€™s what I do, too! It is a very good thing, actually!

I finished the season on hardcore and I can tell you the reward is not worth it. It is just bragging rights and useless crap in cashes. Keep trying! If you give up, the bullies win!

To me that does not matter. I want to be able to complete the season, I could not care less about what is in the reward caches. The fact they are making completion nearly impossible for those of us who are not super pro no lifers is frankly insulting. Killing a regular Uber boss would be reasonable as a season requirement as even I can do that. But requiring a Tormented Boss kill is too far.

2 Likes

The game is actually simpleā€¦very simple. But their interactions are complex, when you read the ability it seems to cause damage or a process that sometimes doesnā€™t work. Meta builds are almost always bugged.

Usually something causes more damage than expected. I always create my build and I donā€™t see significant differences against the metas. Logically I donā€™t do pit 150 but before the goal was NM 100 which was possible. I believe that now Pit 100 is my goal so I did it with my frozen orb build with my staff instead of dagger and with only 1 item 12/12. And of course without ubers.

The game lacks an advanced menu about what each skill does and how they interact, break points from outside sites are not ideal. For example, they need to cause bonus critical damage, but group control critical hits do not come in. So this needs to be explained Paragon has many questions like how to open the gate, it seems simple but it isnā€™t. This season I was looking for where the tormented boss opens and it took me a while to discover that itā€™s on the same altar and scroll to the side.

1 Like

I am playing a Heartseeker Rogue, using Harlequin Crest, Melted Heart of Selig, and Tyrielā€™s Might. I have all the glyphs I use maxxed and as I said at least 1 GA on all the legendary parts.

Aside from that which is my best I have also tried with Minion Necro, Dust Devil Barb, Frost Orb Sorc, and Companion Druid. All at lvl 100 with completed paragon boards.
None of them can beat any of the 3 required bosses.

I love your insight and honesty. I think part of what you are experiencing is the ever creeping presence of power creep. As Blizzard adds more power they keep increasing the range of possible damage and have to increase monster life to keep pace.

The problem then is the top end pulls the bottom end (builds) with it, but the pull isnā€™t equal. I believe that damage being out of control is the main culprit for why there is such a huge power disparity between the top builds and casual fun to play builds. If the difference wasnā€™t literally billions to trillions of damage things that arenā€™t top end wouldnā€™t feel so OP, and tormented bosses wouldnt need quadrillions of life.

As it turns out I just wrote a post that talks about normalizing top end damage. Itā€™s not a casual read, but Iā€™m curious how a self proclaimed casual player might like the idea? Your feedback would be super appreciated! Thanks!

As a tease the formula in this post can take quadrillions of damage and turn it into only a few times bigger than the desired output. It is a damage cap, but I think of it as a soft cap, where top end damage output is still 8-12x more than bottom end damage, instead of millions of times bigger.

nopsā€¦

class powers (including best barb build) x pit 160+ requirements just donĀ“t match.
The game is very unbalancedā€¦