6 skill slot limit might be a dealbreaker

I want to preface this with my experience in the beta this weekend had more positive aspects to it than I expected going into it. I had not been following the news on the game as I had not had high expectations for it following the flop that was D3. I’m a D2 die hard (100+ characters through Hell) and I found the overall D3 experience disappointing by comparison, so I didn’t expect the beta to surprise me with rather good moves back to many of the systems from D2 that made it so engaging.

Specifically, I was quite pleased with the rather open skill trees. Yes, I know these are not without some flaws with the way it is implemented, but it gives me infinitely more hope for flexible builds and improved itemization through item-skill synergy through skill points and corresponding scaling.

However… my optimism quickly soured with a heart-sinking feeling the first time I realized there were no ways to equip more than the skills that could fit in the skill bar. I regularly used all of the hotkeys available to me in D2. I distinctly remember my necromancer’s always required a few choices to limit to the 12 hotkeys. My standard load out was 4 minions, 4 curses for different situations, and 4 support/mana dump skills. It was infinitely worse when I realized that I couldn’t even drop the main heal/buff portion of skeletons to drop in another skill without losing my minions.

I don’t understand how Blizzard expects to establish any depth to combat strategy when you are constrained to only ~3-4 skills once factoring in the core requirements of a given build like necro minions, obligatory resource charging skill, an ultimate or other long cooldown skill. I can understand the combat being shallow for the first 20 levels (where I stopped for the beta), but the thought that it has no room to grow beyond that is baffling to me. I already had to begin dumping skills to take the new ones I was getting at this point. The shallowness intrinsic to such a limited skill pool was one of the most disappointing aspects of D3 combat that turned me off from the game after my first clear.

The real kicker here, and what might be the deal breaker for buying the game, is how terribly this all ties in with the skill tree and +skills affixes. The ability for gear to power up skills via skill points as affixes was one of the most optimistic moments of playing the beta as all of the combos and skill stacking of D2 came to mind. I worry that with the limits as they are, most of the affixes won’t be useful, worse yet they might muddy the affix pool as there is a large chance the skill that is boosted isn’t even one in your build. +all x type skills is greatly diminished in value if you only carry one or two types of the skill (unless the raw value of this is the equivalent in magnitude to + individual skills). These might often just become junk affixes that need to be enchanted away because if the skill isn’t explicitly one of the 6 in your build, you can’t even benefit from it the way you could in D2.

In retrospect, my favorite classes in D2 were the ones that were able to leverage a the widest array of skills strategically or otherwise combo many skills in specific situations to exploit a particular enemy, boss, or situations weaknesses (martial artist, summoner, auradin, shapeshifter, etc.). The classes that relied on spamming one or two skills all the time were frankly quite boring to me (hammerdin, WW barb). The idea that all characters in D4 are more or less guided to a few core skills and only a few support skills is saddening especially as the skill tree, skill point affixes, and aspects should do a fairly good job of balancing the power of a few heavily invested skills vs many lightly invested skills (barring a few considerations for cooldown skills with no other notable resource cost… an entirely solvable design flaw).

I worry that the open flexibility to build cool combos across many skills and bringing a mixed bag of skills to use strategically in various circumstances will be entirely handicapped by this constraint. Some support skills might be made entirely irrelevant given the cost of the skill slot they consume. That just isn’t fun to me.

The worst part was I was feeling that repetition of combat in the beta early on where every battle followed the same regimented set of just a few skills. At the time I had hope that this would open up with access to more of the skill tree and further skills later. It wasn’t until I couldn’t put my new skill unlocked onto my bar that I realized that I already hit the cap on combat depth only a few hours in.

Anyway, I just wanted to make sure that I also added my disappointment in this design on the slim hope that this can be opened up to more options in the future.

32 Likes

This game is for the casual audience, they are appealing to the broadest audience they can to just get sales. Move on.

2 Likes

Well take for example sorc cooldown reduction with ice blades. It takes timing your cds effectively, an entirely new layer of strategy. This game seems to be more of an “easy to play, hard to master” philosophy.

Positioning and timing matter more with limited skill buttons. More skill buttons actually make the game more shallow, since you have more cds, thus don’t have to worry about timing your other ones. You can just pretty much then press all buttons at once over and over again and play effectively.

This is how many people play lost ark. And do very well.

3 Likes

The thing is… Would it make a difference if you could put more things on the bar?

The whole game was designed with simplistic single combo per build in mind.

If you had more room you’d just be diluting the limited skill points you have to spend and passing by the passives which tend to be more powerful than the skills themselves.

Outside of maybe just adding an “ultimate” button, it would require rebuilding everything to make more skills at once viable

TBH Im lookin at making a few builds with no ultimate whatsoever, why wait for a Ultimate when you can have constantly higher DPS?

6 Likes

This is where I’m at as well. I feel like the ultimate should have its own button but I’m fine with only having 6 skills.

2 Likes

Regarding “I want to preface this with my experience in the beta this weekend had more positive aspects to it than I expected going into it…”

Thank you, you are someone who gets it! :slight_smile:
That was a very well written post and explains the core issues with the 6 skill limit.

I’ll still play the game as is (to completely the main story) but it won’t have any longevity for me with the current limit.

We can hope the limit will be increased but I think the most that will happen is, adding 1 extra key for the ultimate skill.

2 Likes

Fantastic post, I wholeheartedly agree. This issue will likely prevent me from buying. The game looks beautiful, but I dont know if I can stick with four abilities all game as a necro…

Even a dedicated ultimate would go a long way. But necromancers/druids should also have their pets separate from the skill bar, I think. For fun’s sake.

3 Likes

6 + Ult would be nice.

5 Likes

I’m heavily against having separate slot for ultimate, it makes adding points to ultimate skills compulsory. Except basic skill, no skill should be mandatory to add points

And 6 slots is more than enough. You guys are just greedy. You guys don’t want choice to matter. You guys don’t want to put a thought and consideration into which skills to put on the bar and which not. Pure entitlement attitude.

7 Likes

the game is likely balanced around 6. I doubt they will add another and test all the possible problems when the game releases in 2 months.

6 is plenty. learn to make decisions.

1 Like

I’m playing last epoch with only 5 skill slots and it’s much much less casual than d4. Can’t even see the correlation between skill slot number and being casual. What a weird argument.

5 Likes

Only to a certain degree.
It’s like the argument that if you have few skill slots the builds will have more diversity and unique identities.
Actually, it’s 2 curves intersecting- 1) Increase of slots/skill vs 2) Decrease of uniquely definable permutations.
So there is a happy medium to be struck where it allow for both diversity, and dynamism.
After testing, it appears that 7 skill slots is closer to the sweetspot.

EDIT: That aside, anecdotally, the builds get boring fast in D4 with 6 slots, when you already have an enforced Builder+Spender foundation inherent to each build. A lot of the more “fun” skills feel like a compromise for 6 slots, so you have barbarians with 3-4 shouts then 2 auto attacks, essentially making your character just an axe swinger with 2 animations that do “action”.
Having an extra slot to be able to have more mobility, or pull or kick enemies around will go a LONG way in alleviating the boredom burnout that sets in

3 Likes

Yeah, they can still change in in the next 5 months leading up to season 1.
Also, you can swop out skill mid-combat, it’s not that much of a “balancing” thing.
Would 5 skill be better for your “hard choices” argument?
6 skills slots for what is available in D4 is more boring than 7. I too want as few slots as possible that till allows fun and build variety, and 7 seems right, 6 seems too few.

1 Like

it worked well for last epoch. but they designed it to have 5.

my argument is learn to make decisions.

Last Epoch has other systems that make up for this to alleviate the boredom of a core spam in your build.

It’s a false equivalence. Learning to make decisions is one thing, being 1 skill slot short and thereby being FORCED to make some decisions which are bad compromises in making a Fun vs Effectiveness choice isn’t necessarily a good thing for the game. Not suggesting 10 slots, just 7.

you aren’t. you can literally take one of each type of skill. including an ultimate. you could even drop a skill type to get more of another.

make decisions. lt isn’t a false equivalence. i had to do the same thing in last epoch. it’s hard but you can do it.

2 Likes

Yea right, wondering how Last Epoch survived for so long with just 5 skill slots… they probably will go bankrupt because of it ^^

Last epoch doesn’t have unique resources for each class that force a builder skill. So, it’s 5 because the “builder” skill is just walk.

Last epoch doesn’t have ultimates, so it doesn’t feel like you have a dead button in the bar for just elites.

Last epoch skills sometimes change into other skills as you use them, like Nova rotating from Frost, Fire and Lighting novas, or Druid Shapeshifts giving you 3 unique skills when you turn into each animal (so, a druid with 3 shapes, 1 AA, and 1 summon, actually he has 11 skills), or Rogue skills changing depending on if you use a bow or a melee weapon to do dmg, so they have 10 skills instead of 5.

The point is… having 5 buttons is not the problem. Having 5 skill animations and effects is.

6 Likes

i don’t see how requiring a basic skill invalidates what i said. especially since for many classes it isn’t optional. your build literally won’t function without it.