zDH? is that really good? lets do some math

General Discussion
1

I see the current xp meta being 1zbarb + 1zDH + 2x GoD DH. zbarb is always OP on the support role. But zDH for damage buff?

First, we need to learn some damage mechanism. In game, always all buff, debuff counted as a big category called “Damage Increased By Skill” or DIBS. That include:

  1. Taeguk gem
  2. Toxin gem
  3. skill on belt, pants
  4. wolf buff
  5. strongarm
  6. falter

Now, by default, a proper dps DH have 70% Taeguk, 30% from belt, pants, 15% wolf, and from barb that have 50% from falter, 10% from Toxin (barb need to use nem so no strongarm), that mean a total of 175%, or doing 275% base damage. So with zbarb + 3x dps DHs we’ve 3x275% = 825% damage.

What buffs zDH give? 150% form Odyssey, 60% from Strongarm (both the DH and Barb), 10% Toxin, or 220% added damage, make it a total of 495% damage. So with zbarb + zDH + 2x dps DH, it’s 2x495% = 990% damage.

From 825% to 990%, its indeed only 20% more overall damage in the best scenario.

2

Not a math guy, but this math seems a little off to me. Mostly that Odyssey is a multiplicative buff, not additive like Strongarm (also why strongarm wouldn’t be 60%, slightly lower). As far as I know, it was only of the only multiplicative damage group buffs in the game.

Would the math be more properly 275% base damage x10% toxic + 60% Storngarms, multiplied by 150% for odyssey? (275 +60 + 10)x150 = 517.5%) multiplier for 2x DH zDH and Barb.

So I believe it would be ~517.5%(not 495%) more damage x2 (per DH) which is
1035% more damage in total, rather than the 990% with a zDH you reported. Which is 25% more damage, plus all the extra, such as pulling and other possible applicable buffs, like the 15% Wolf, and 8% critical chance on Multishot.

 Would like to again report I am NOT a MATH guy. His math just didn't check out.
3

That’s also if you can do that many DH’s and ww on the same game…my buds and I just did a couple 120’s and 4+ min of each one was dedicated to lag lockdown :neutral_face:

4

That’s area damage! take it off the support and barb and you should do better.

5

Yeah…still with my WD (0%AD), barb, LoD necro, and the new tempest rush build it decimated the server lol. We don’t do proper meta groups so I’m guessing the other three had their AD up there, even the “support” barb was wwrend just with nems and ignore pain.

6

Hmm does Strongarm stack?

7

I think how you explained the perspective is interesting, and theoretical.

In speeds, the DH additive buff and pulls are near instant. The zBarb falter/stomp buff has a short cooldown, no big deal, it mainly matters on the elites, which are the speed bumps of exping, zBarbs can help make up for it with spears and run speed.

  • Wolf Companion is multiplicative.
  • Taeguk can be swapped for Powerful or Zeis, which might alter your calculations.

When the 4th member selection is between a low paragon dps and zDH, there is less benefit to choosing the dps.

With experienced players in either config, you likely wont notice much of a difference, which is good for the game.

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8

I thought Odyssey’s End is also multiplicative? I would be interested in seeing the real numbers and calculations. Though he, and I, came up with 20% and 25% (and 8% crit) more damage respectively.

9

You forgot to add MS windchill to that list, but a few things to also mention:

  1. Wolf is multiplicative, not additive.

  2. If we’re talking about max potency, then the dps DH’s shouldn’t be running with taeguk alongside a zDH and a zbarb. Zei’s would be best, followed by botp.

While the damage buffs from zDH are delightful, it’s the wide range of pull from the bolas that really shine. Given the nature of random flying HA’s, having multiple small pods of enemies “grouped” by the zDH ups the dps’ output significantly. This, followed by the fact that freezing bolas also keeps them compacted in those small pods gives HA’s more time to pierce and proc AD.

It’s not pixel pulls by any means, but the efficient nature of which a zDH can provide grouping is unrivaled in a speed scenario. It’s not just the raw damage buffs.

It’s always been additive. Normally when blizzard does make changes to numbers that were previously additive, they make them multiplicative. This was the first thing DH’s tested when we saw this change on PTR.

Unfortunately it still remained additive.

1 Like
10

and now back to reality and to the ground.
simple: Crowd Control diminished returns

next to zdh i play an xpbarb. and when I see such nonsense with barb cc spamming … pull is okay. but rest ?! and most of them also have executioners in the cube …