I feel that this is how WW should have always played. I am totally for Rend being WW main source of damage. I especially like that we can choose 2H or DW.
Great job Blizz!
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I like the net result. I don’t like how they got there. Wastes has gone from a ww set to a rend set with ww support. Yesterday, speed and ticks were important. Now it’s all about rend damage. To me it doesn’t make any sense. There are much easier ways to give us a damage boost without completely changing the mechanics behind the build.
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They always state they wanted Rend as part of the set and now it is. Although WW is in a support capacity it either provides healing or fury depending on the rune and dust devils help to spread your ability to apply rend.
I view it as ‘death by 1000 cuts’, it’s not WW itself that’s causing the damage, it’s applying the wound that then has enemies bleed out. The fact that we’ll no longer rely on extreme fishing for ridiculous density packs that cripple servers and turn what should be a fluid build into a pause-inducing lagfest is an added bonus.
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I think that WW Rend feels right, but I propose they swap the 2pc bonus of Wrath with the legendary power of Ambo’s Pride.
It just makes more thematical sense that we can add damage with support items, while sets change the way we play. This also gives the player more choice as to how they want to buff the build imo.
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The fact that lag has been reduced dramatically is the greatest improvement. Dare I say that we could actually finally be a part of the meta in a offensive capacity.
I did not have that experience. I was lagging a bit at 122 last night. Did you drop bloodshed?
I was not using BS, but I wasn’t pushing 122 either.
Something I’ve noticed is that the rift boss really goes down fast. And I only cubed ambos. The trash doesn’t seem to die faster. But after looking things here, I’ll changed things around.
Dust Devils do not apply Rend.
Right now, WW does zero damage in the build. Not very happy with this particular design even if I think the build is, finally, tuned to the right spot.
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Actually, Yes and No.
It can proc rend within certain small radius. You can check my ambo test summary in another thread. Also, more important thing, it has 0 proc coefficient => no AD by Ambo-rend (tested).
Hey—we get to agree to agree again! 
I’m sorry to hear that bro. WW has now become the support damage. What changes do you think could be done?
Ok thanks for clarifying that. That is interesting then in the sense that it’s pretty much rend and ww have swapped places with regards to one being completely worthless.
Hmm. That hardly seems worth it–the radius, I mean.
No proc coefficient means AD becomes essentially worthless in the build. Rend still can’t crit, right? That would also make Bloodshed more or less useless, no?
Good question. I’m working on a thorough PTR Feedback thread that will be posted in the next day or so.
Right now, the situation is that our damage output is where it needs to be, but the distribution of DPS between both skills is more like 98% Rend, 2% WW.
Personally, I’d like to see it brought close to 50/50, which is more or less what we did in the proposal.
For now, I’m considering the following, assuming they can fit in a buff to Skull Grasp:
- Skull Grasp buffed to 750-1000%
- Ambo’s auto-Rend retracted
- Ambo’s Rend detonation delayed to 3 seconds
I’m hesitant on this last one, but if Skull Grasp is buffed, Lamentation’s damage will likely need to be nerfed to something like 80-120%.
If a buff to Skull Grasp is out of the question (and that is likely the case), the following would help:
- Delete Ambo’s auto-Rend
- Delay Ambo’s Rend detonation to 3 seconds
- Add to Ambo: Whirlwind deals XXX% increased damage to enemies Rended in the last 5 seconds
These are just rough ideas, but I’m open to further discussion.
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Ambo rend no coefficient is intended. Otherwise there will be a server issue. The total dps rend vs wws is not 49:1. otherwise people hit 150 already.
WWs build has 150AD which means it has at least 5 multiplier in high density. Also it has more than 20 nados much larger attacking area. By my estimation rend is now 2-3 Ww total dps.
Skullgrasp tuning–all in on that
Ambo rend to 3 seconds–sure, would drop rend dps and make fights longer
Manual Rend–Nope
I honestly don’t get while you are still pushing for manual Rend. In all the feedback, I don’t recall reading one other person say that stopping to Rend would make things better. I know you like to talk about the skill of the build, but this a pvm only game. Skill of the build–every build–is more about beating the RNG gear check gods than anything else. Bastardizing an allusion to end with, manual rend strikes me (still) as a Wastes solution in search of a problem.
It’s less about manual Rend, and more that we can’t control the duration of the Rend. If it detonates, any WW attack will cause it to happen, greatly disrupting our ability to build and consolidate density. In other words, if we don’t auto-Rend, we can build massive density, Rend it twice, and then WW until another Rend is necessary. This makes survival much easier for players at any Paragon, and gives the player more control over how and when damage is applied.
In the current setup, the Rend cannot be controlled.
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Those are fair points. With the current build I dropped spear completely for 120-122 as trash died well before I could establish large packs. I’m guessing this probably isn’t as much of an issue if you push 130, but we know that doesn’t apply to very many players. In lower grs than 120, the auto rend did mean I just cruised right through to elite packs. The play style was very “un-barb.”
That said, (and knowing full well this ship has sailed) I still think a better solution is putting rend back in the scrap heap where it was and just tuning skullgrasp. That way we could try to strike the right damage balance and still have the playstyle we are used to.
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If these nerf applied…then the rend build will die…
However, I do agree that skull grasp should have some buff. say 2* buff. 5 level to match rend total dmg. Currently, the only choice for Waste is a Ambo-rend build. We do still want purely WW build is viable.
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Gotta agree with JustinFan on this
Removing the current mechanics and forcing Dust Devils AD to deal most of the damage will bring it back to lag fest central. Which means great maps are now unplayable again.
Free, you’re also totally ignoring that WW dps is dependent on attack speed and density (lag enchancer) while Rend is not, which is the major upside to having Rend be the main damage source. WW damage is also a lot fishier than Rend, which doesn’t need great density to do its damage quickly.
Moving away from current iteration would be a nerf. The more of a build’s damage relies on density and great maps (WW mechanics), the fishier it will be. I think everyone’s tired of only dealing meaningful damage on 3 maps in the game.
If you want Barb nerfed again then implement Free’s idea. 
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