That’s much better. It would be nice if there was a Shoulder legendary that allowed us to cast Blizzard for free
I THINK IT WOULD BE FAR SUPERIOR IF WINTER FLURRY TRIGGERED FROM FROST NOVA.
on Meteor: With the (effective) removal of Etched Sigil from Meteor builds, is there a relatively simple way we could salvage it that we could propose? I mean, the changes they implemented not ideal, but at least we did receive a proportionally large amount of changes.
We need to make up the 150% damage, and the “Free” meteor Shower cast every 1 second.
The main issue isn’t so much the damage. That would hurt, yes, but the real nail to this coffin is the missing autocast feature that deals 95% of the damage. Manually casting Meteor + gaining Deathwish buff is impossible thanks to the Bazooka nerf 1 second delay and I don’t see them going back on that one for Deathwish.
There are some options, none being really good, though.
I can envision Auto Meteors in combination with Tal Rasha - it’s already there, they could cut the set’s internal cooldown on the autocasts to 1 second. But that would not help us with LoN/LoD based builds. Mhhh, not sure I like this.
Then there is Nilfur’s Boast. A bit awkward, but:
For each offensive skill on your bar, you automatically drop a Meteor of the same element whenever you attack with an Arcane Power spender. Meteors deal 600% increased damage. If Meteor hits 5 or less targets, the damage is increased by another 800-1000%.
As for the second Meteor item, Grand Vizier… I don’t like it to include a buff on this item but it’s there, so I’ll mention it just in case. They could up the damage and add some autocast feature or something that repeats manual casts. But it’s a 2H weapon and that would kill our option to use Aether Walker. So, well, yeah… don’t like it.
And finally we have Hergbrash’s Binding. That one could cover the damage loss from Etched Sigil, if anything.
Furthermore we could add a completely new item in this picture that autocasts Meteors or some other skill through some mechaninc. But I don’t think they go for something like this when they killed ES.
The last option would mean to scrap channeling as a base and go for manual casts. But that would be a pain in the rear, at least in my opinion. I won’t suggest something like that. Not to provide them with any more weird ideas.
Thing is, I also don’t like that one, it’s nastier in terms of mobility and it’s a third weapon - another 2H weapon at that - do you really think that would be a good idea? I mean, unless we do something nuts with that item?
Smoldering Core: Meteor gains the effect of every rune, has no cooldown, consumes no Arcane Power and deals 125-150% increased damage. Your Enemies are pulled into the impact zone.
100% feels like it should be attached to Typhon’s Veil.
The awkward feeling after Fragment of Destiny receives changes but signatures don’t get buffed.
…Kills off so many builds by making it specific to Twister. Etched sigil was already a fun, interactive item. No need to do this. I’d rather see Deathwish nixxed.
This also leaves Twister channeling as a build, without giving the option of running non-channeled twister, while forcing every other build into a non-channeled option.
We want more options, not less.
Required modification of spell behavior. Why would I want my twisters to go straight? Circling back is what enables higher damage, and makes it easier to combine Raging Storms.
Twister weapon… Don’t we already have one of those? Tack the multiplier onto Twisted sword for pete’s sake!
Theoretically, a second weapon could make some sense if you’re offering an alternative method of non-channeled gameplay, but by leaving channeling in there for Twister, it becomes a requirement ON TOP of other multipliers.
Additionally, If I’m running non-channeled Twister, I’d prefer to have room in weapon slots for items like Echoing Fury or Aether Walker.
Could be interesting interplay for GR speeds, but seems like it will slow down our relatively immobile class by requiring to run a debuff skill. Highly mobile non-archon loadouts usually require Aether Walker, which usually requires AP restoring/reducing skills or items to supplement, and Teleport. Takes up yet another weapon slot (offhand).
Not that it’s necessarily a required item for Nephalems, but Nephalem rifting builds wouldn’t have the time to run this. Plant Hydra, Cast Signatures, then cast blizzard? No way that’s worthwhile.
Would require Frost Nova on the bar to use the rune, yet another skill slot requirement.
Chance also seems pretty low considering it’s an on-kill effect. Would much rather an on-hit chance effect.
I think i’d almost prefer something like:
Winter Flurry: Critical Hits have x% chance to release a Frost Nova. Frost Nova assumes every rune. Duration and effectiveness of runes are Tripled.
This would benefit almost any build that runs the item, and doesn’t even require you run it on the skill bar.
Another weapon for Frozen orb, could be problematic for speed builds (as those also prefer Echoing fury, but I love getting those Wizardspike procs. Excited to test this change.
Good changes , even with Wizardspike, I think ~2.5GRs is a bit low for DMO, considering non-channeled FO doesn’t get the benefit of ES. Would be able to use area damage though.
~2.5 GRs for TV seems just a smidge high if we’re making it competitive with LoN for lower paragons, but it’s great to see TV get potential buffs. I definitely want TV to be competitive.
Love it! Interested to see how having build changing AND environmental rift changing bonus mixes it up.
In summary: Deathwish still exists, Etched sigil is possibly gone, and we’re going into a season with a 4th cube slot. Channeled Hydra will still exist, but it will have to use arcane dynamo / signature spells and blizzard (possibly no teleport) with CoE burst. A very awkward playstyle when combined with channeling.
Would have loved to have seen more changes around Wizard’s mobility and more skills than just Hydra and FO.
Omg new wizard item changes that lead to new builds other than just buff by x5, didn’t really expect that as well as set buffs! On paper I’m slightly disappointed by the implementation. Just sounds like they want us to cast an arcane spender for the hell of it like Blizzard and ET w/o really improving those skill playstyle or synergy in any way. This is better than channeling…why?
Room for improvement, but definitely excited to be playing and experimenting again - last few patches were unacceptable for wizard and holy seasonal changes, they definitely got the message this season was awful lol, very hyped for PTR!
They had a forum FULL of ideas to buff wizards and this is what they do?..
How hard was it to buff the damage for chantodo / vyr archon?
Or meteors… Tal Rasha… Firebird…
This is what they do? What a disappointment. I feel like every update… they nerf the top build and replace it with another. How about they balance it more than 1 build so we have more variety instead of everyone using 1 top build on that class.
Not happy with these changes…
Honestly if we were hoping for this set to be saved we were hoping for some beta team miracle here, let’s be real…it’s just too much of a disaster to be saved. I am however surprised Tal Rasha didn’t get love.
Alright, lets break it down and see what the actual buffs we got (Please verify my maths as I’m tired)
Twister Builds
Etched Sigil - TERRIBLE change. Ruins many other builds out there. Buffs damage to Twisters by 40% over previous Etched Sigil effect.
Valthek’s Rebuke - Replaces Deathwish. Buffs damage to Twisters by 17% over Deathwish.
DMO - Buffs damage to Twisters by 46%.
Overall change to Twister damage in non-season = 2.4x
This accounts to about 6 GRifts increase. Etched Sigil makes this build a channeling while Valthek’s Rebuke is supposed to replace Deathwish to be a non-channel build. Very awkward to require both forms.
Hydra Builds
Fragment of Destiny - Replaces Deathwish for a DECREASE of about 7.7% damage.
Winter Flurry - Replaces Etched Sigil for a net zero change in damage.
Typhon’s Veil - Buffs damage to Hydras by 50%
Overall change to Hydra’s damage in non-season = 1.4x damage
This accounts to about 2 GRifts increase. No longer relying on channeling is a nice bonus. Hydra build now requires Blizzard and a Signature spell which really sucks. This combination does open up F&R rings for potential use.
Arcane Orb (Frozen Orb)
Wizardspike - Replaces Orb of Infinite Depth. Increases damage by 220% over OoID.
DMO - Buffs damage to Frozen Orb by 46%.
Overall change to Frozen Orb’s damage in non-season = 4.7x
This accounts to about 10 GRifts increase. Loses a lot of damage reduction. Also, speed Frozen Orb build isn’t affected. This doesn’t help speed build at all.
Meteor Shower
Etched Sigil - TERRIBLE change!!! Meteor Shower loses a lot of damage here. About 8 GRifts worth of damage.
.
These changes barely do anything for the Wizard other than make items convoluted, confusing and overlapping. There are 2 decent changes. Wizardspike for Frozen Orb, but it still won’t be as good as vyr’s I believe (Especially since it does nothing for speed build) and making Hydra not require channeling. Don’t get excited for these changes
Honestly not really, you’re thinking very paper here. In actual game play you’re going to make up and exceed a lot of damage not having to channel and wait 1 second for the bonus to kick in every time you have to break or reposition. That’s mainly the reason we didn’t want to channel with hydras other than feeling awkward and being forced.
That being said, yes they could have just given it the same % so it feels like a real buff.
That entirely depends on how Fragment buff works. I kind of left that open to interpretation. They didn’t specify a timer on the buff, nor did they mention anything about Hydra consuming the buff so it could work either way. If Hydras consume the stacks then it’s going to be a huge pain to keep the damage. It will be much worse for speeds over Deathwish.
Instead of channeling you will be casting Signature spells constantly. Toe-may-toe/Toe-mah-toe
Good point, I was assuming since they clearly want us doing stuff other than channeling or casting hydras that you’d need to primary spam to keep it going, but it says nothing about duration so that was indeed a large assumption.
Snapshotting would be such a pain and honestly worse than channeling so I hope not…
Won’t replace next season. I think we’d still run Deathwish in the 4th cube slot. EDIT: this would be glass cannon setup though for TV. OID / non-channeled could still be a pretty good option in that case.
FoD: x4 multiplier. ~8.82 GR levels. They didn’t state a duration for the spectral bonus. Could be worrisome.
Arcane Dynamo: 1.6x multiplier. ~3GRs increase
Winter Flurry debuff here is applied differently than Etched Sigil is in current patch. Minor difference there though i’d think.
~11.82 GRs increase total for LoD, but that doesn’t account for the playstyle difference and troubles keeping squirts. Mostly would revolve around supercharging those hydras and then channeling during the 4s CoE window. I think Channeled hydra even now puts out decent damage outside of CoE comparatively.
EDIT (9/26/2020): if we compare to OID / nonchannel setup, decrease to weapon slot of ~9.21 - 8.82 = ~-.39 GRs for LoD and TV Hydra.
OID gives 1.4x multiplier for ~2.14 GRs increase.
Typhon’s Veil: 201 / 131 = 1.53x multiplier. ~2.7GRs increase.
~4.45GRs increase total For non-channeled Typhon’s Veil (but close to 3-4x the toughness - would have an easier time keeping up Squirt’s).
EDIT (9/26/2020): can fit TnT with TV, forgot about the extra ring slot, nevermind on the slow Hydras. Better than I first thought.
For non seasonal, decrease to weapon slot of ~9.21 - 8.82 = ~.39 GRs for Hydra.
Increase of ~3GRs for arcane Dynamo.
Typhon’s Veil: 201 / 131 = 1.53x multiplier. ~2.7GRs increase.
Both LoD and Typhon’s non seasonal would be non-channeled. Typhon’s is the better option I think for NS.
LoD is possibly better for seasonal.
Wizardspike = 4.5x or ~9.58 GRs, not counting the extra procs. Not sure if that’s with or without AD, but assuming you’re hitting with the extra procs consistently (probably not) it would be: 1.25 = ~1.42GRs additional.
So ~11 GRs total compared to Deathwish’s 4.25x = ~ 9.21 GRs, about 1.79 GRs’ increase overall compared to the channeled FO we saw last season.
DMO: 1251 / 851 = 1.47x = ~2.45 GRs increase.
I’d say Wizardspike replaces Deathwish in this situation, as these seasons use bonuses that have either cube unlocked or an extra cube slot. You’re right that we can’t fit in OID for non-seasonal, but seasonal could place it. Unstable Scepter, Triumvirate, Wizardspike it is now +OID or Aether Walker for seasons, or could opt for Echoing Fury, but that’s a lot of DR loss without having the mobility for NS.
Some channeling FO builds were running Mantle , so we do lose some toughness there regardless.
Would be neat to see how many procs you can get now from Wizardspike at higher attack speeds though.
Add in a little attack speed for the dagger, and I’m starting to get pretty excited for non-channeled FO.
I think I’ll prefer DMO for solo push as the toughness there is easier to keep up vs LoD with having Stone Gauntlets. LoD could be nice for nephalems, decent for speeds though.
I noticed this too. I’m asking to have it changed to Frost Nova instead of Blizzard. That way it’s a much more fluid, elegantly designed item, and makes the choice between Arlyse over Karini interesting. Let’s face it. Nobody wants to cast Blizzard, and ALL hydras benefit from Frost nova thanks to Magistrate, so it would work for any Cold or hydra-centric build.
And Wizards might get a decent speed build again with Cold Vyr. I consider it the most important PTR change they could make.
Sorry but these updates are pathetic. You destroyed sigil which was one of the few interesting items. Yeah frozen orb, twister and hydra are stronger, but only with the 4th cube slot. Also too bad wiz has no mobility still… good job Bliz top notch!
This patch could make sense in a bigger picture. Unfortunatly i do not see it.
Arcane Orb
Buffing Arcane Orb is nice. Hopefully Blizz buff the non-FO Runes as well.
Channeling Spells
The ES Nerf is Ok. By removing the AP costs with the Autocast it would have been to dominant for all Mana Spending skills. Imo Energy twister is besidess Explosion one of two main DPS skills Autocast makes sense.
Whats still missing: Deathwish (Its really rare that the community of a class begs for a certain NERF)
LoG and some weaker runes would deserve some love as well.
Hydra
The big changes in the Hydra playstyle are worrying me - because i got the feeling: There is no bigger balance-concept for the Wiz.
Whats missing: Vyr
Vyr should be the strongest Archone Set. Maybe some minor adjustment
Tals
Tals is destined to be played with Meteor. Therefore the ES change does not bother me. Personally i prefer Meteor played in combination with signature spells instead of channeling and autocast.
Firebird
For some Reason i would love an Firebird and Explosion combination. But there should be an possibility to play the none-fire runes as well. (Maybe the element with the highest +Elemental damage.
There are more ideas but the wall of text is high enough,
With the nerf to ES we get to use take source as part of gearing again in the tals set. As I can’t think of any source that’s good to replace. Maybe people will do 6/4 tals builds as only viable options again
Autocasting ETs makes actually less sense than most wizard skills. See Cratics posts for reference right above (merging twisters)
As you said it’s more reasonable to “nerf” Deathwish than to nerf ES.
The newly introduced Winter Flurry actually is a good starting point to compete with ES. If they buff it to be global dmg increase instead of only hydra it would be a legit alternative.
I really don’t see why it’s good to nerf ES and therefore removing many builds completely.
Winter Flurry 
, even with Wizardspike, I think ~2.5GRs is a bit low for DMO, considering non-channeled FO doesn’t get the benefit of ES. Would be able to use area damage though. 
Interested to see how having build changing AND environmental rift changing bonus mixes it up.
