Wizard Ethereal weapons feedback

PTR Feedback
1

In comparison to WD and especially Necro our weapons are very lackluster with no good offensive stats like CC/CHD and no special cool abilities like the other classes.

I mean if this was done on a balance perspective I may understand since WD is woefully behind and necro got nerfed, otherwise why is our weapons littered with useless things like arcane regen, all resist, vitality and apoc? Like every single weapon, pretty disappointing in comparison.

At least swap a few out for things like Area damage, attack speed or something unique. An example is we don’t have a single weapon that does +1 damage per paragon up to 800 or CHD/CC like seemingly all other classes

2

Because they are supposed to resemble the original Uniques from Diablo 2.

This are the affixes the Oculus in D2 had:

The Oculus

  • +3 To Sorceress Skill Levels
  • 25% Chance To Cast lvl 1 Teleport When Struck
  • +5 Mana After Each Kill
  • 30% Faster Cast Rate
  • +20% Enhanced Defense
  • +20 to Vitality
  • +20 to Energy
  • All Resistances +20
  • 50% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

So they basically turned Mana on Kill into Arcane Power on Crit.

It would be damn cool if the D3 version of the Oculus would have 30% increased attack speed as well.

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Yesterday I made a mock-up for The Oculus.
Ignore the giant damage number, that was just me trying to illustrate the idea of how Ethereals could look like if they wouldn’t roll with large Damage Multipliers as Legendary Affixes (basically increasing the weapon damage to compensate for the loss of the damage multiplier), but the Normal Affixes should line up.

Imgur

Maybe if the Normal Affixes are not good enough on some Ethereals, they have to increase the Base Weapon Damage a bit. Not as much as I did it in the mockup, but maybe by up to 30% or so if necessary in case the Normal Affixes are not good enough…

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I get that it mirrors D2 stats but could use some tweaks like other class weapons, again unless it was purposely done like that for balance purposes. D2 stats didn’t also have 1 max damage per paragon level obviously, nor a lot of CHD/CC stats. They made additional changes from D2 to make those weapons really appealing in D3 yet somehow forgot to do the same with most of the wizard ones.

The 2H is nice, but the others…especially the wizardspike could possibly be the worst weapon of all classes by a large margin. If they wanted to mirror D2 stats give it it’s proper 25% IAS or some of the other consecutive hits = AS bonus…that one was completely neglected.

P.S. Do love that melting Ethereals gives GR keys for PTR, best change since Djank Meim!

4

Wizard Ethereal Testing Feedback.
I’ve been playing Seasonal PTR, now 950 paragon. Mostly testing Firebirds thus far.

General:

  • “+x% Damage to all Wizard skills” is a very misleading description for this affix because it is actually a multiplier to sheet, not additive with skill% damage or DIBS.
  • Ethereal legendary powers can be hard to identify quickly. Please prepend the Legendary power name before the legendary power description on an ethereal. This will make them easier to identify.
  • Wizard does not have a “special affix” like a lot of other classes get on their ethereals. We get higher APoC, higher AS affix (~doubled only though). For Wizard, where’s the 30% stacking AS? The -25% to enemy damage on hit? The 40% movement speed?
  • EE doesn’t get a stack from the weapon like normal, because Wizard ethereals don’t roll an elemental damage type. No issue here IMO, just kind of funny that an ethereal could give the player EE, yet cut it’s benefit significantly.

Ethereal Specific:

The only ethereal thus far I haven’t found a use for is the Wizardspike. In D2 the Wizardspike gave a lot of resist, faster cast rate and mana pool.

The Ethereal Wizardspike in D3 has none of these things.

  • Why are the resists on this item limited to +130? why not go bonkers and give +1300 or something crazy?
  • Why is the attack speed benefit so low if that is to be the focus? One 15% affix is not enough to significantly enhance the damage of most builds, even hydra gaining a breakpoint from 24 FPA to 18 FPA would only give 33% dps increase, for example.
  • Why is the +maximum Mana limited to +14? shouldn’t this value be higher? +30 or +50 from one item would be really cool.
  • Arcane power regen on the Wizardspike could be increased, 4 to 6 might be a better value.

The Two handed Mang Song’s Lesson is very powerful with a x4 multiplier rather than x2, and up to 20% elemental, but it lacks CDR, AS, base AS, and APoC, which makes it very specific, limiting the builds that can use it (no attack speed based builds, and other builds need to make up the CDR elsewhere).

Even on Firebirds Mirror Image, we give up:

  • Source slot to fit in 2h.
  • A passive to maintain resource,
  • Aughilds (1.3x with 1.3 elite dmg%),
  • Traded off CDR, 15% elite dmg, VIT, and APoC that we can get from the Oculus.

Overall, it is powerful, and can be used some of the time, but it might need more affixes or revised affixes to make it more beneficial of an option.

For example:

  • The original Mang Song’s lesson from D2 came with 30% FCR. Why not add a large amount of CDR to this weapon, seeing as that is the type of build that would want to use a slow two hander, and we already have the attack speed focus for the Ethereal Wizardspike?
  • Undead% damage makes the 2h very fishy on a high end push. Advise adding another type, such as Human% or Demon%, to widen the pool on the top end so that we are not fishing for ONLY undead mob type, elites.
  • Since this item does not come with APoC and voids you of a source option, why not increase the amount of AP/s it provides? 2 AP/s is not near enough to sustain resource, even with a slower weapon when channeling disintegrate. Increasing this to 4 arcane power per second would not be overdoing it.
  • Why does it only come with 1125 INT? This is much less than an ancient two hander, which can go up to 1465 INT.
  • Perhaps a LPH affix would help offset the lower attack speed in terms of recovery.

The Oculus is a good all around Ethereal, no complaints from me on this Ethereal thus far.

In general:

  • I don’t quite like that I’ll have to play every class to get the ethereal feat and transmogs. I really don’t have that many slots on my account at the moment…Dreading the stash crunch to be able to do this.
  • I like how Ethereals are changing builds, even if it is slight changes.
  • I like I won’t have to do as many bounties to reroll weapons in season.
  • I like the drop rate. Seems in between Ancient and primal as stated in the notes, though favoring closer to ancient. I’ve been finding ~2-3 per primal drop in seasonal.
6 Likes
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Thanks for your reply Cratic and we share similar viewpoints with lack of unique stats on wizard weapon especially Wizardspike. If any change is to be made it definitely needs to be on that one…they’ll get the picture when literally no leaderboard will have it on.

The Oculus is in a good spot, hence why it dominates the LB, could use some flavor and yes the AR stats should be swapped out for something more offensive. Better description like you said is needed, especially things like “100% damage”

Mang Song’s Lesson 2H for the big damage, yes could really use maximum damage paragon or CC/CHD to further make it favorable since we give up a lot of stats.

Wizardspike definitely needs that AS modifier for consecutive hits found on several other classes and maybe another damage stat to give it more appeal.

Update: Managed a 117 totally handicapped para >1k , no aug, no MI and with Wizardspike just to show it’s not completely gimp, but yeah obviously could use work. I’d say max push would probably be close to GR130, meanwhile Oculus and MI could do 150 easily after augs/paragon/gearing.

2 Likes
6

Seems like our feedback was received and actioned upon. New patch notes read:

  • The Oculus
    • Added affix: Reduce the damage of enemies hit by 25% for 5 seconds
  • Wizardspike
    • Added affix: Consecutive hits to enemies increases damage by 10% up to 100%

These are some of the juicier special affixes! I was quite excited to test these in solo speed and push.

Testing: v2.7.1.76273. Now ~2300 paragon, and augmented. Seasonal PTR, FB MI builds.

I have now pushed a:

  • GR144 in 14:17 with the 2H Mang Song’s Lesson (~60 keys+40 attempting GR145) @~18K INT, ~1.9kp
  • GR145 in 14:39 with the revised 1H Oculus (~30 keys) @~20k INT, ~2.3kp
  • GR146 in 13:55 with the revised 1H Wizardspike (~100 keys) @~20.5k INT, ~2.3kp

For all of these builds I ran with Tasker and Theo in the cube. TnT feels better offensively, getting more FB6 procs off within Fire Convention, and the Mirror images tend to survive better from hitting enemies quicker. However, this does mean I am running without Mantle of Channeling, which would give 25% DR (tankier).

Note my Templar was spec’d with cannot die token. In a fully decked out push scenario however, a player might opt for the 50% Cooldown skills token and with high CDR on follower gear, get close to a 7s heal, instead of a 15s heal that I was testing with. This would greatly help overall recovery.

2H Mang Song’s Lesson

  • https://maxroll.gg/d3planner/163084352

In all this experience, of the builds that felt the most lacking in toughness, was the 2H Mang Song’s Lesson build. I went with DS:Prism to help with recovery and cost reduction, and templar to assist with healing, AP/s. Notably, having to swap out Bone chill for the Prism decreases dps output by ~1GR, and also means CC is more RNG since we rely on the follower’s Cord of the Sherma and Stuns, however, Prism felt like the best method of solving the issues with resource (since we can’t slot APoC).

Offensively, the 2H Mang Song’s build felt the most capable (and satisfying! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:) at focused Trash clearing, especially with the Krelm’s buff bracers ( :+1:).

Defensively I rarely could stick around to profit off many trash pulls once elites aggro’d, however :slightly_frowning_face:.

On the top end, even when I was lucky enough to fish up a glorious skeleton summoner rift, the archers and summoner projectiles eventually overwhelmed. I actually found Executioner / Revenant undead mob type to be much more tame, and better for progression.

Additionally, with needing undead elites to some degree, and only 2 Undead RGs in the pool, it feels like it will take many more keys to get the proper elite and RG spawns in order to progress as compared to Oculus (100% dmg mod+45% elite damage), or Wizardspike (30% elite with stacking damage affix).

The slow attack speed of the 2H weapon makes your LPH near useless in comparison to the recovery of the Oculus and Wizardspike builds. It also makes gameplay some of the simplest, since there is no way to cast a manual flame blades (extra fire%) without dropping Taeguk. So, stand and channel, and Krelm’s to victory.

I tried swapping in Mantle of Channeling for this build but without CC the images started getting destroyed by the trash, even through Enforcer DR. Same was true for the other 1H builds, but especially noticeable with the Mang Song’s.

My feedback for Mang Song’s Lesson remains largely unchanged:

  • Add CDR affix.
  • Add LPH affix.
  • Add another %dmg to x type of monster so that we are not only fishing for undead. This might also help the clear potential of the build, which is currently -2GR behind the highest performing Ethereal in push.
  • Increase the AP/s from 2 to 4.
  • Increase amount of INT it provides.

I will add that this is now the only weapon missing a special affix of some kind. I suppose the mere appearance of a 2h weapon is good enough, but it needs a little more flair. :shamrock: :ribbon: :fleur_de_lis:

1H Oculus

  • The Oculus
    • Added affix: Reduce the damage of enemies hit by 25% for 5 seconds
  • https://maxroll.gg/d3planner/882840773

For testing of the 1H Oculus build I roughly copied the affixes I had perfected in testing the Wizardspike. Features: 2 +AVG dmg ring rolls and 2 LPH affixes to help with recovery (Bracer and Gloves). Compared to the 2H, even the 1.54 AS of a wand allows for pretty good LPH returns.

The extra elite damage on the Oculus and the up to +100% damage affix make it a heavy hitter, and very consistent option.

The new affix definitely makes it feel the most tanky. I had the best experiences with pulling multiple elites together with this build. I was able to make better use of Oculus ring spawns and position optimally during Conduit. Favorable Oculus ring spawns would devastate elites, especially yellows that happened to group together.

While elites are the focus of this setup (with 45% elite damage), it was no slouch against trash clear when needed. The slightly higher AS means you can manually flame blade in between Taeguk channel to get extra fire% before Fire Convention, though it is still a bit risky (if CC’d during, you lose taeguk).

The build felt good, well rounded, especially with the new affix and extra +1k VIT. The APoC on weapon is also nice, it allows to swap out of APoC on source, in favor of CDR there.

My only criticism of this item is that the 75-100% affix is going to make getting a near perfect one hard to get, seeing as none of the other Ethereals have this range. Perhaps make the range 85-100% instead please?

Balance wise, this push build is competing for the top slot. EDIT: Near perfectly rolled Oculus gearing / paragon is competing about evenly with Wizardspike. Notably, while I only cleared GR145, I invested the least amount of keys into this clear, seeing as so many other players are pushing this variant. Feels Fairly well balanced, at least for now. Time will tell I suppose.

1H Wizardspike

  • Wizardspike
    • Added affix: Consecutive hits to enemies increases damage by 10% up to 100%
  • https://maxroll.gg/d3planner/822122532

I love :heart_eyes: the new affix. It fits the theme of attacking fast, and encourages focused engagements.

Application of the debuff does not appear to spread to multiple targets at the same time all that well, however, with the high attack speed that the item provides, combined with Disintegrate I had no issues continually applying the debuff to primary targets that were nearby. Damage was noticeable vs single digit density, and vs single target RGs.

Feels like a mini-stricken that is player directed. Hard to track where you are applying it though, especially since most Wizard spells are AoE.

Regardless, I felt this special affix and the high AS of the Wizardspike (1.90 AS!) had the most impact to gameplay.

  • Recovery with 2 LPH affixes is amazing!
  • Easy manual cast of Flame Blades while keeping Taeguk.
  • Nice for Triggering consistent Oculus Ring spawns in density.
  • Single Target RG kill times are much improved; Very good for a build that plays without Stricken.

No longer was I only focusing on Trash or elites, but a combination of both. Have to be careful of overextending though. A pull with one elite is fine, but multiple elites without a pylon can be harmful.

I am most excited :smile: about the Wizardspike, not only because it will be easier to perfect than the Oculus, but because the new affix really changes how we prioritize and engage targets within the rift.

Side note: Wizardspike’s new affix should make Wizard a wicked RGK option (even more appealing than before).

Concluding:

Of all the Ethereal Options, the ones that change Build and Gameplay the most:

  • Wizardspike
  • Mang Song’s Lesson

I’m glad we have a weapon like the Oculus however; Some players prefer consistency, similarity. This will allow them that option. Oculus will make a good selection for solo speed farming, support in group play, as well as a good choice for newer players.

The 2H Mang Song’s Lesson does still need a little bit of work to bring it in line power wise. It feels about 2GR behind the other builds, and like I mention, part of being able to close that gap is just toughness and recovery issues.

However, I am much happier than the first iteration PTR in regards to special affixes selection. Great job! :clap: Looking forward to Wizarding in S24. :mage:

6 Likes
7

All I have to say is, Wizardspike shouldn’t be buffing FB MI at all, since we already have 2 other ethereals for that, and it’s strong enough of an RGK as is.

Instead it should be devoted to buffing Frozen Orb (as the non-ethereal Wizardspike does as well). This can be done by changing +100% damage to all skills to either +200% damage to Cold skills or secondary skills.

8

Except the Ethereals are based on Diablo 2 items, not Diablo 3. So it wouldn’t make much sense for wizardspike to buff Frozen Orb or ice skills specifically, considering that the Diablo 2 version of Wizardspike was almost universally useful to sorceresses regardless of their builds.

Now regarding firebird and mirror images, all that can be done with that is disabling the interaction between the two. Blizzard may or mayn’t get to that in the future.

9

Except all 4 ethereals that currently buff a subset of skills (Windforce, Arioc’s Needle, Ghostflame, & Gidbinn, which buff Archery, Decay, secondary, and Voodoo skills respectively) did not specifically buff those skills in Diablo 2. This shows that Bliz is taking liberties with the D2 source material and it is perfectly reasonable that they do the same with Wizardspike as well.

This is not a question of “may or may not”, but when.

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And? That’s Blizzard making some wrong choices in the affixes, and instead they should have the damage boosts be generic, rather than skill or skill category specific. In fact I don’t even know why they made the changes that they did to the WD’s ethereal items, but hopefully they revert said changes, and then give said items a massive buff (especially if they’re not going to give any decent permanent buffs to WDs).

Who knows, maybe they will, maybe they won’t. From the looks of it though, it won’t be anytime soon.

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And who are you to say they are wrong? Do you work for them?

Because they probably believed (as do many players) that these changes lead to better balance among WD builds. For instance, the change to Arioc’s needle made Spirit Barrage competitive with Zuni DoD, and even made it competitive as a trash killer in 4 man. With this change, there isn’t even a need to “give said items a massive buff”.

Likewise if they reworked Wizardspike to be about Cold skills, it would balance Frozen Orb against FB MI. It baffles me why they would balance one class but not another.

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I certainly think it did. However, it made it much harder to acquire a useable weapon and that’s before one considers witch doctor’s passives are some of the more context sensitive ones in the game.

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Of course not. However if we’re to look at most of the Ethereal Items, they give generic buffs rather than skill or skill category specific buffs. Blizzard choosing to make the wd’s ethereal items an exception makes no sense. So yes, I’d say that they’re wrong. You’re more than free to disagree.

But as a result, the WD’s ethereal items became more restrictive as opposed to before.

Why should they try to balance frozen orb to firebird through a temporary means like the seasonal theme. It’s not like the Ethereal items are going to be permanent.

1 Like
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To me it makes little sense that didn’t make most ethereals give skill category specific buffs. But let’s agree to disagree here.

Why is restrictive an issue? You realize that if they make all 3 ethereals generic, one will end up being better than the other two and you’ll have to hunt for that one in the end anyway?

Because most (competitive) players play season? But I agree they should buff Frozen Orb by buffing its legendary items as well. At this point, however, it’s more reasonable to expect that they’ll make a change to an ethereal than a legendary.

15

Monks and DH rolls strength on their weapon, even more useless than wizz rolling all resist, arcane regen, vitality and apoc

16

Wondering if all weapons should roll all stats increase by x.

17

Yes, and tbh I don’t see anything wrong with that. However, there’s no guarantee that you’re going to find that Ethereal item (especially with the rolls that you want) during the course of the season. At least if the items gave a generic buff, they can still be useful for your build. For example, if I was aiming for The Occulus, but only found a decently rolled Wizardspike; I could still use the Wizardspike for my build until I find The Occulus. On the otherhand, if The Wizardspike only buffed a few skills, and said skills weren’t among the skills that I used, then the Wizardspike would pretty much be useless to me; and I’d likely end up dreading every wizardspike that I find (similar to how I’ll likely dread finding the 2handed staff).

On the other hand, if the Ethereals weren’t as rare as they are, then maybe such restrictions would be warranted.

Well sure, but my point is that it’s far better to just make an permanent adjustment rather than a temporary one. Balancing the game via seasonal themes sounds like a headache imo. For example, instead of changing the witchdoctor’s ethereal items; wouldn’t it had been better to just buff the skills within the skill category directly, either via an item or the skills themselves? It wouldn’t be the first time, they made such a change during the course of a ptr.

18

I see. Then this:

should be the solution, since buffing drop rates directly addresses this issue without adding other problems.

I agree. That’s why I wrote this:

19

Right, if they increase the droprate of the Ethereal items, then I wouldn’t mind at all if they change the damage bonuses to be skill category specific instead of generic for some of the Ethereal items.

20

Yes this is why I love the change specifically for my speed non-MI build: https://maxroll.gg/d3planner-ptr/728483021
It seems specifically tailored to more engaging playstyle like this, I definitely felt a huge power increase and speed vs putting it on the standard MI build. I did a 125 first try no augments para 1k so this is definitely going to blast and makes it more viable!

Which with some of the suggestions with wanting to make this 200% secondary skill only or only cold damage only wouldn’t kill it off completely of course, but it would make it feel a lot less special and be very behind MI as only Oculus would be useful for 100% skill damage, be much slower, couldn’t roll AS and would have no reason for it’s defense.

1 Like