Will Diablo 4 have mmo stuff like D3 or will be true to Diablo legacy? When i mean mmo stuff, i mean things that exist mostly on mmorpg’s and are contaminating even modern games.
-Cooldowns - I an fine with any other way to balance skills. Casts/rest like DkS, very long casting time on Dragon’s Dogma, require high resources like most games, but in general mmo’s tends to have a lot of cooldowns. Kotor 1 and 2 has no cooldown but swtor has. Same happens to neverwinter nights. NWN1 and 2 has no cooldowns. neverwinter online has and is vastly different than previous ones.
.
- Stats linked on gear. On a RPG stats should measure your character capabilities, i can’t fell immersed in a world where everyone is the same without the gear but can easily change everything about then by changing the cloths. On older fallout games, if you try play with very low int, you barely can talk. Requirements are good for very action focused games. For example, on demon souls to use Long Bow you need 15 STR. Fully draw an longbow requires a lot of strength, that makes sense. Some type of small bonus to not defense coming for armor is fine. But most of stats should be choosed by the player.
- No choices and consequences. For example, if you decide to become an vampire, it should give a lot of power, but make you much more weaker to fire and take sun damage. I can understand why an mmo will not allow this, it will make the player OP in certain situations and useless in another, but IMO the immersion and choices/consequences are far more important than the game balance. Mainly in a single player game If you decided to heavily specialize on fire skills, then you should have an very hard time against fire resistant/immune mobs. When i played DkS 2 as a pyromancer. Iron Keep was very hard and it made sense. Other situations become easier as a pyro in consequence of my power to manipulate fire. If you decided to be an paladin, you should ve very powerful against undead but should have some weakness to compensate it. That is how games should work.
If immunity returns, there needs to be ways to counter it such as having the ability to lower enemy resistance. Any way besides having to avoid the enemy because of a bad match up.
Diablo, for me, has always been a coop with friends or solo game. I also hope they do not fully commit to the MMO route. On the other hand… additional features for supporting coop play are very welcome in my opinion.
Nothing wrong with cooldowns done right, the game doesn’t have to follow real world logic, ARPGs usually aren’t going to go down the long storyline route with vamps and werewolves, and screw immunities sideways. Immunities CAN work, but if they’re present players need to have realistic access to decent multielement builds.
Blizzard continues to mantra that they only make multiplayer games. So, my guess is that yes, it will be another multiplayer game that disfavors single players and continues many of the WoW-type MMO tropes.
You people are the ones who complain about “not enough content” while D3 supposed to be a ARPG. I wouldn’t be surprised if next Diablo becomes an MMO because developers simply fail to create self-sustaining models and spread gambling at every occassion by failing to nail a risk-reward balance. I donno about you but I expect to see a casino run by Diablo or Zoltun Kulle at next game in the franchise.
Perhaps it is better not to categorize everyone as ‘you people’ and then assign us an arbitrary skill set.
Other than that, you’re right. Unlikely that D4 will be anything recognizable. Blizzard is clearly chasing money at this point. I have no expectations for it. And really at this point if anyone does think it will be either a great game or a worthwhile entry into the Diablo franchise, they have not been paying attention.
My only complaint regarding Diablo 3’s content was how Greater Rifts practically became the be-all and end-all of the game, while also trivializing nearly every other content the game has to offer.
Well Blizzard better figure out how to do that without causing severe game lag.
I don’t know what game you would actually be playing as you think about 6 in game except maybe Diablo II or PoE
I agree. Immunities can work but IMO Sorceress on D2 suffer much more from immunities than Druids since an Wind Druid can deal physical + cold and an fire druid, fire + physical.
About real world logic, IMO RPG’s should be immersive as an LoTR novel for eg. With things that makes sense on LoTR world.
Part of most MODERN rpg’s. But if you look to 90s/earlier 00s RPG’s, most of then doesn’t use CDs. But yes, Dragon’s Dogma is an exception, not the rule. Dragon’s Dogma had IMO the best action combat and no CDs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWjD0vOgOWE
You can use tenfold flurry + blast arrows, the unique problem is that the explosive arrow weights and you will ran out of ammo very fast. Not mentioning that will be heavy for an long time, until you unload this arrows and that they costs a lot of gold.
Amusing, but using explosive arrows fails to explain why one doesn’t need cool-down time for magic spells and such in a fantasy RPG game.
A better argument, please.
On DD, there aren’t CDs for Sorcerers, Mages and Magick Archers too. Some skills like Great Sacrifice deals insane damage, but require an long casting time and that you sacrifice an companion. So, if you trow tree times this skill, you are now alone.
CDs was never an part of Diablo Franchise. On D1 they din’t existed and on D2 they was added to few HW intensive skills as a casting delay that is always smaller than the skill duration, not as a gameplay design decision, but to reduce lag. I don’t wanna to constant watch to an skill bar, mainly in an fast phased action focused game.
Spell slots on the way that Dark Souls 2 presented leads to some “decisions”, for example, Forbidden Sun, the strongest pyromancy that literally creates an mini sun and trows at the enemy, Insane deadly and deals AOE damage. What is the problem? Is behind an long quest and takes 3 attenument slots ( search the wikia, i can’t post links) So the ‘charname’ needs to make an choice. What is best? Be able to throw 3 forbidden suns with 43 ATN and Hexer hood or be able to throw 20+ fire orbs? And there are no easy solution. In some situations, quality is better than quantity and in others, quantity is better than quality. Most fantasy novels uses Vancian system and IMO is the best system for gaming too.
The argument that just because something didn’t exist before so it shouldn’t be used now is stupid.
D1 didn’t have cooldowns, you say? Well, D1 didn’t have a Necromancer either, so I guess D2 and D3 shouldn’t have it. D1 only had 3 elements, so I guess we should get rid of everything that isn’t Lightning, Fire, or Magic. D1 didn’t have skill trees or any advancement system except attribute points, so I guess we should never use anything except attribute points.
Look, the bottom line on cooldowns is that it doesn’t flippin’ matter how many examples of games you pull up without them. It IS possible to have good games with cooldowns whether you like it or not - and if you don’t, then stay away and go play Dogma, Dark Souls, and Ultima.
Also if there’s no cooldown or a limitation, it’s most likely for game to crash in a multiplayer sequence. I remember D2 realms simply crash if you switch between constant effect spells like auras way too fast. That whole “no cooldown” thing is bogus on the terms of technical limitations. Present day, GPUs are stronger now but effects’ complexity are way beyond that.
Another thing is, now mass DoT and area damage is rare because they inflict lag due to mass calculations feedback, they can not be used abundantly on skills to diverse them. When that happens, only option is differentiate them with cooldowns and efficiency.
Lastly, without downtime there won’t be any dynamic combat where player forced to change position and fight to stand their ground. That’s part of resource management and timing that player have to go through and area denial attacks simply back up this notion.
Without cooldowns player would be able to stand their ground and replenish life by stacking life sustaining affixes like lifesteal. If positioning don’t matter that wouldn’t be dynamic combat then, would it? Game ain’t gonna give you your “glass-cannon” in a silver tray this time, get over it.
All you ever achieved was making D2 fans look bad and obsessed, Victor.
Except that this improved the game and increased the replayability, lore, gameplay and other interesting stuff. In other words, was new things that made an game better.
Cooldowns aren’t an “feature” like an new class with a lot of new spells. They are an limitations on “features” in the most artificial and boring way. The best modern action focused RPG’s, like Dragon’s Dogma/Dark Souls doesn’t use and the best tactical based RPG’s like Pathfinder kingmaker doesn’t use too.
Anyway, i think that RPG’s should aim to be like fictional novels. Imagine the following dialog in a novel between an necromancer master and an apprendice
Apprentice - “how you become the most powerful necromancer in the world”? Master - “i found this gloves and boots that increases my IQ by 300 points and this big and sharp axe that i use to animate an powerful golem. First you dismaterialize the axe. Then cast the spell, then rematerialize the axe, remember. More big and sharp the axe, more powerful artificial unlife you will create(and yes, your weapon disappear during animations)” Apprentice - “But master, where i should go to study/practice” Master - “Study/practice? This will not make your spells stronger. Everyone from the weakest to strongest necromancer in the world can animate 7 skeletons, everyone is equally intelligent and tough, now stop with this nonsense and go search an glove that can make you 50x stronger!!! And remember, never drop your axe, otherwise your golem will become useless. Ahhh and after you give an order to your skeleton army, wait 30 seconds to give another order. I don’t know why they can’t listen to you for this arbitrary amount of time, but just do it!!!”
You’re the only person who thinks cooldowns haven’t made games better.
There are other limitations on features, and you’ve never been able to offer one shred of evidence that cooldowns are any worse than they are. All you have is your opinion. You’re entitled to it, but it doesn’t help you win any arguments.
You’re free to go play Dogma and Kingmaker to your heart’s content. Nobody is forcing you to play games with mechanics you don’t like.
Anyway, i think that RPG’s should aim to be like fictional novels. Imagine the following dialog in a novel between an necromancer master and an apprendice
Apprentice - “how you become the most powerful necromancer in the world”? Master - “i found this gloves and boots that increases my IQ by 300 points and this big and sharp axe that i use to animate an powerful golem. First you dismaterialize the axe. Then cast the spell, then rematerialize the axe, remember. More big and sharp the axe, more powerful artificial unlife you will create(and yes, your weapon disappear during animations)” Apprentice - “But master, where i should go to study/practice” Master - “Study/practice? This will not make your spells stronger. Everyone from the weakest to strongest necromancer in the world can animate 7 skeletons, everyone is equally intelligent and tough, now stop with this nonsense and go search an glove that can make you 50x stronger!!! And remember, never drop your axe, otherwise your golem will become useless. Ahhh and after you give an order to your skeleton army, wait 30 seconds to give another order. I don’t know why they can’t listen to you for this arbitrary amount of time, but just do it!!!”
Yes, yes, for the 5 billionth time - everything centered on weapon damage scaling was a bad decision, get over it already.
![:confused:](https://d1hnj6esvk269c.cloudfront.net/en/d3/images/emoji/twitter/confused.png?v=6" ":confused:")