Why Hate Diablo 2

General Discussion
1

Everything had to be changed for Diablo 3. Completely different game. Why does Blizzard hate Diablo 2?

Oh wait, we did get a sparkly cow level in Diablo 3 so I guess that’s something.

I would bet that D4 will be more like D3 than it’s like D2. D2 just seems to be getting stomped on.

This thread has been locked to prevent conversation from devolving even further. - Forum Moderator

42 Likes
2

D3 is on life support, D4 is on the way. I am sure that some of the D2 fanboys will have new things to complain about with D4.

31 Likes
3

Ya, I suppose D3 is just fighting to have more active players than D2 at this point.

I am pretty sure you are right that D2 players will be complaining about D4. It will become kind of funny, “Blizzard, I’ve been playing D2 for 30 years; when will … LOL”

4 Likes
4

This is an interesting question. I wonder how many ppl play D2 and D3 these days. D2 channels are crowded, but this alone tells nothing.

2 Likes
5

I moved on from D2 when D3 was released, I will move on from D3 when D4 is released.

16 Likes
6

D2 is about 150k online at most times I believe (surges during resets, etc.). When you log on D2 will tell you how many are on your server and total. I’m not sure, Twitch views between D2 and D3 are pretty similar.

I moved on from D3 some years back, I’ll move on from D2 when there is a good substitute. I definitely understand wanting to move on from D3 though to D4, maybe the developers feel the same way or maybe they just want to put some more content in the Diablo3esque universe. None of the D4 updates ever address the ill feelings toward D3, nothing is mentioned except “we hear you all about itemization” or something.

5 Likes
7

I myself play both of them to this day. However, I wouldn’t be able to accurately tell you which is more populated.

1 Like
8

Heh, new rumors about D2 remaster appeared on reddit )

1 Like
9

This logic that disagreement or variation from is equal to “hatred” is a trend that desperately needs to stop. It’s an infantile meme that grossly exaggerates a situation and paints your opponent as morally inferior. It’s a filthy tactic long used in politics, and it’s now become commonplace to use it in other realms of discussion and it should stop. Disagreement from your opinion is NOT hate. Merriam-Webster can refresh your memory if you still require clarification as to what “hate” actually is.

No video game studio simply copies the previous game when they release a sequel. There’s always a push to innovate and create a new game. D3 is a different game from D2. To be clear, I disagree with many of the choices the D3 devs made, especially in Vanilla, and was vocal about it, but they absolutely had the right to make their own, new game and they did get a lot of things right, especially about an intuitive and addictive combat system.

D2 has a lot of dated tech and ideas that people wanted to update with D3.

  • Going from 2D sprites to 3D was a big improvement
  • Getting rid of mandatory consumables and fluff like arrows/bolts, throwing potions/weapons, potion spam were all good thing.
  • Streamlining the inventory so you could focus on playing was a good thing.
  • Getting rid of magic find was a good thing, so you didn’t have to try and make two sets of gear. You should be best rewarded for playing in your strongest gear, not in a clown suit of selected farmed/duped uniques you got just to make the bosses drop better loot.
  • Getting rid of “stats” where the only correct solution was: “enough STR to equip your armor, then VIT”. You shouldn’t need a spreadsheet to solve for the best configuration in the game. Stats were not a meaningful choice. Make them meaningful and sure, they can come back, but otherwise, leave them gone.
  • Cracking down hard on botting, hacking, and duping was a good thing. We’re seeing it come back now as the game moves to classic and they’re not dedicating the resources to security as much, but it was infinitely better than D1 or D2.
  • Expanding the endgame from boss and/or Pindle runs to include bounties, NRs, GRs, and Ubers was a good idea. It needs more development, but it was a big improvement.
  • Getting rid of charms so you could actually use your inventory and still fight at max power was a great thing. At best, charms should have been giving a unique slot.

Did the D3 devs get some things wrong that D2 got right? Sure.

  • D2 actually had balanced numbers. D3 did not
  • D2 had significantly more build diversity
  • D2 was not dependent on sets to define builds
  • D2 had a greater sense of permanence with your characters because there were fewer opportunities to respec. RP fans appreciated this.
  • D2 had a much better story line

There’s more of course. I’m not trying to write a thesis here, but you called this “hate.” That’s bunk, and the idea needed to be corrected with a reasonable expectation of how games develop and change over time. D4 is not going to be another copy of D2. Prepare for it.

If you want some specific mechanic or idea, the D4 devs are listening and open to intelligent feedback. Feel free to post some, if you’re still so inclined, but understand they may not agree, and that doesn’t mean they “hate” you.

32 Likes
10

D2 doesn’t make Blizzard any money… It’s costing them money to keep the servers running, allotting the bandwidth needed and providing the game minimal tech support.

The only time they make money with D2 is when they do a bot banwave, the bots just buy new keys and keep rolling until the next banwave.

3 Likes
11

Huh? Both games are designed in a way to where players go to town once every x minutes. Game designers do that on purpose.

This has been argued about at least 100 times. I disagree but think an argument isn’t worth it.

Pindle was nerfed many years ago. Most players farm (lvl85) areas now, just like in D3. D2 has ubers and key hunting so pretty much a push.

Disagree strongly. D2 players have used charms and their inventory for decades. I promise you most D2 players would not vote to get rid of charms. They are a lot of fun.

You know what you can find in D2 that’s valuable that’s not valuable in D3? Charms (small, large, and grand), runes, white items, socketed items, and jewels. That’s a ton of the item base to remove from the game. You’re pretty much looking for rare, set, or unique gear only in D3. Here, hold my beer while I smash my face into my keyboard to effectively play D3.

Ya, I would call it hate. The developers went out of there way to ensure that Diablo 3 was nothing like D2. D2 hasn’t had any love in 20 years and it’s a travesty. It’s either hate, giant ego, or naivety

7 Likes
12

D2 player here, well…actually, been playing since D1. Charms were the WORST. Took up space, especially when trying to get every last bit out of your character. There were times I had to go to town after each boss kill because I couldn’t carry half of what dropped due to all the charms. It was ridiculous and needed to go.

15 Likes
13

D3 endgame is far better than D2. Ubers were a great way to farm Torches and sell them, but not true endgame. More of a gate that all but Paladins struggled to cross

5 Likes
14

They didn’t need to go, what needed to happen was Blizzard making a seperate inventory slot for charms. But if I had to choose between simply removing an entire set of items or clogging the inventory space I’d choose the latter, of course.

4 Likes
15

You’re absolutely right. Add magic items and rares to that list because in D3 they only serve as crafting mats and might aswell drop as those right away.

6 Likes
16

What is the point of this thread ?

Ah yes, the same old same old. Help me I’m being overrun I can’t complain here and give a bad reputation about these guys they’re actually debating

There are about 50 topics of this kind and frankly it’s even disrespectful and dishonest the way they are made

If you want a better D4 ?, talk from D4’s perspective, not D3

2 Likes
17

D2 had a huge revision in the 1.10 patch, and it has been updated beyond that. IIRC, the 1.10 patch was issued 10 years or so after it’s initial release. Who’s paying for that? There’s no subscription system, no MTX, no DLC, just the upfront cost of the game that hadn’t sold at it’s initial MSRP for years because it was an old game. Your assertion that Blizzard didn’t give any love for 20 years is absurd. Blizzard supported the game long after there was any financial incentive to do it.

And it seems you still missed my initial point. D3 is different. There are valid reasons for that. Tech improves. Fan bases mature and want more from games. Developers want to make their own mark by adding unique features and mechanics to sequels. That’s true of any sequel of any game in any genre of game that you play. It’s never going to be exactly the same as the previous game. Are you going to argue that the D2 devs “hated” D1 because they didn’t just shove you back down in the same 16 level cathedral with the same 3 classes all over again? Or was it the D2 devs’ “giant ego” and “naivete”?

9 Likes
18

I think the higher up’s at activisionblizzard are jealous that D2 is a better game than D3 and will do everything in their power to soil the memory of blizzard north.

8 Likes
19

D3 have many good points, curiously, years ago, when I was following the development I was overwhelmed, it seemed like a Diablo version 3.0 and then… no leak at all, nothing.
And, the game took +1 year of development to become D3 Classic, just looking at all the rainbows was enough for me to don’t buy it.
I bought it when RoS was released.

Now here I am, I bought back D2 few days ago and I begin to see where are the weakness of the third chapter.
Understand, the pace of action is much better with D3 but D2 technicalities (skill system, progression, …) gives meaningful choice which define a play style and that customization isn’t punished by itemization.

Video gaming evolve, change, 23 years ago Diablo has been a real blast, I simply couldn’t stop to play and D2 was only a continuity of this beautiful nightmare.
D3 has been 50% disappointment / 50% fun

What I think is that D4 team is getting the best of both games and add new components to the recipe, the gameplay trailer does look like Diablo version 3.0, the skill tree is back, darkness is back, I would like to see evil be what it is… and beat the crap out of it in the most horrific scenarios

1 Like
20

Good post ! Well written and smart, I totally agree with you.

Nothing is ever pure white or black. I hope D4 is not about D2 VS D3 VS others ARPGs and instead, focus on the best parts of all those other games. What made the success of D2? D3? PoE? etc. and how they can include that in D4. And they must ask themself what didn’t work in D2? D3? And don’t make the same mistakes again.

2 Likes