Why doesn't this new forum recognize my login?!

[BossDogg-1898]

@TheTias-1192

You have the option of asking for your authenticator on every login. That’s always been available to you. That will prevent anyone from doing anything with the forum account.

While that is nice that has nothing to do with flaw I described. I log into the account management site, then log into the forum site (separate tab). I next log out of account management and close the browser. Upon re-opening the browser I’m still logged into the forum site (a battle net site). After further testing…

1 - open forum site and login.
2 - open account management in a second tab and login.
3 - log out of the forum site.
.-> At this point I’m still logged into the account management site.

The above is a full-on double login scenario with all the dangerous downsides that come with it. If I did not expressly go and test this then there would be no way for me to know this. The common look/feel of the sites present the user with what seems to be a single sign-on/off but that is not the case. It is false feedback. The old forum and account management sites used a single sign-on. So, it is by design that they are deceiving the end user. Even a brand new user would be hard pressed to know that the different sites depend on separate but similar logins. Maybe they are solving a problem with their current compartmentalization design but they are opening the user to dangerous scenarios.

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You mentioned access to the account management site with a valid forum token but not being presented with a credentials check (see the quote below). Did I miss something here? If starting from a logged out state on all sites:
1 - open and log into the forum site
2 - select Account Settings from the drop down menu
.-> At this point I’m presented with a login page. I’m not able to access the account management site with just a valid forum login so I’m not able to recreate what you stated.

@TheTias-1192

The only thing I’m not happy with is that a valid forum token lets you into account management at all. It shouldn’t do so simply because even if you can’t change the data present without entering your credentials again, you can view the data, some of which is stuff you don’t want seen, such as your real name and actual email address (neither are hashed out like on other sites).

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@TheTias-1192

That’s how the Discourse parser works. Believe it or not, it’s a blessing in disguise for what would be otherwise impossible tasks (mostly having to do with pictures with links). It happens as a matter of course with regard to how the CSS works here. This is also by design. What really should have been done, and this is likely on the Discourse side of things, is to make TL1/2 parse links into plain text instead of always parsing them as clickable hypertext and refusing to allow it to be posted.

Forgive me as I do not see the blessing for its disguise. While this is again by design it is counter intuitive. When I log into the forum, I, the user, believe that I’m using/interacting with a site that is focused on editing/posting replies and creating threads. Post flagging is an essential part of the feature set, while liking and bookmarking are icing on the cake extras. So if the focus is creating threads, replying to threads, and editing posts then I’m not interacting with a command interpreter (aka interactive parser). This is where the problems start (tip of the iceberg). One could say its a form before function scenario. While you provide a solution that preserves the interactive parser functionality, you’ll have to forgive me but, I would prefer they completely disable that sweet, hot, intelligent, tall [shift + 1] by default and give the user and option, via a control panel, to enable it.

@TheTias-1192

It makes troubleshooting posts difficult on the WoW side in the Mac TS forum where I do not have TL3 like I do here.

Side note → TL3 here in D3 forum. Its been less than 100 days. Do not mistake this statement as begging for TL3. If they aren’t going to respect the rules they establish then why expect anyone else to have respect for them? If the rules don’t apply evenly to regular players then they don’t have regular players. They have the worthy and unworthy… favorites and non-favorites. A two class system, with 2nd class citizenship as its default… not a fun ride.

@TheTias-1192

While there are a few bugs with the editor mostly (annoying ones to be sure which make editing an already existing post a bug-riddled experience if you are editing raw HTML code like I’ve been doing), the design was purposeful and is for the most part properly functional. It merely takes getting used to.

Trust me, you’ve only had to deal with the absolute most superficial of the annoyances.

The above provides me no comfort. It implies that there is much more frustration that is waiting for me. Editing 26 pages of raw html in this fragile editor + interactive parser is like asking to:

• drive while shaving
• while at night
• across a poorly lit road way
• that is littered with black ice patches

Frustration would be an woefully inadequate descriptor and you’re not getting paid for it. Again this site should behave like a forum site not behave like an interactive command interpreter. If they want to offer players the ability to compose fancy html marked up guides then it should be implemented as a separate feature of the D3 site (probably something akin to Wordpress) and allow us to link to from the forums.

I realize this may come across as me complaining about my jail cell, complete with its functioning toilet, small window and slighted dented bars, while you are in html editing hell (solitary confinement) with no toilet, no window, no light, no rec. time, and no monetary compensation. I get it, but jail is still jail… and in this case its detention without probable cause, with no means to redress grievances, and I paid for the privilege. So unlike the vast majority of posting player base I’m speaking up because my entertainment dollars have value and I’m standing up because of unfair treatment.

[TheTias-1192]

@BossDogg-1898

Maybe they are solving a problem with their current compartmentalization design but they are opening the user to dangerous scenarios.

Not really. The only issue for the end user here is if someone physically accesses their computer. If someone knows that there are others that can gain physical access to their computer and they are not using the settings that force login when the screensaver is enabled or when sleeping the computer, that’s on them, not Blizzard. Failure to use common sense security measures on your end is not a Blizzard failing, that’s a PEBKAC issue.

@BossDogg-1898

You mentioned access to the account management site with a valid forum token but not being presented with a credentials check (see the quote below). Did I miss something here? If starting from a logged out state on all sites:
1 - open and log into the forum site
2 - select Account Settings from the drop down menu
.-> At this point I’m presented with a login page. I’m not able to access the account management site with just a valid forum login so I’m not able to recreate what you stated.

If you just went to the site itself and used the Account Settings page directly from the site without first logging into the forum first via the Log In button, then yes, you’re presented with a login page for account settings because it has no valid token to let you in with. I just tried. However, if you first click Log In for the game’s site (the single click thing or the full fledged credentials/authenticator, whichever it gives you) and then log into account management, it lets you in without asking for credentials. I tried that too. So yes, you only need a valid forum token to log into the account settings page to view it.

@BossDogg-1898

Forgive me as I do not see the blessing for its disguise. While this is again by design it is counter intuitive. When I log into the forum, I, the user, believe that I’m using/interacting with a site that is focused on editing/posting replies and creating threads. Post flagging is an essential part of the feature set, while liking and bookmarking are icing on the cake extras. So if the focus is creating threads, replying to threads, and editing posts then I’m not interacting with a command interpreter (aka interactive parser). This is where the problems start (tip of the iceberg). One could say its a form before function scenario. While you provide a solution that preserves the interactive parser functionality, you’ll have to forgive me but, I would prefer they completely disable that sweet, hot, intelligent, tall [shift + 1] by default and give the user and option, via a control panel, to enable it.

Again, all that should have been and needs to be done is to make the parser post as plain text for those not able to post clickable links. Well, actually they also need to make it so that links to their own site(s) (Battle.net, and the like) act as exemptions to that link rule so doing something like copying a thread title works when pasting it into the editor window. FWIW, a lot of sites use this behaviour where highlighting and copying hypertext words (links), whether they’re URLs or URLs hidden behind text like this results in copying the link, not the page text. That’s just something you’ll need to get used to. It’s standard fare even on other forum sites.

@BossDogg-1898

Side note –> TL3 here in D3 forum. Its been less than 100 days. Do not mistake this statement as begging for TL3. If they aren’t going to respect the rules they establish then why expect anyone else to have respect for them? If the rules don’t apply evenly to regular players then they don’t have regular players. They have the worthy and unworthy… favorites and non-favorites. A two class system, with 2nd class citizenship as its default… not a fun ride.

This was done so certain things from the old forum like guides and the like could be posted, as well as new guides made and/or videos like those from EazyTarget for the challenge rifts. His only needs TL2, but some other posts needed TL3. And for a guide like MissCheetah’s transmog guide, TL3 was definitely required. I couldn’t have made that guide for her without TL3, especially since I needed to test certain aspects of HTML that require that trust level. And it wasn’t given to people that Blizzard thought couldn’t be trusted. And don’t try to rag on MVPs for getting TL3 - they kind of need it for the posts they tend to make.

This is a non-issue since we’re not spending all day posting nothing but cat GIFs in every thread we visit. There are also many forum sites where some people get higher privileges than the rest of the posters because they’ve shown they don’t troll and/or abuse other posters. In my case, TL3 actually incentivized me to go the extra mile for MissCheetah’s guide. It took me nearly two full weeks to fully flesh it out between the initial draft(s), code testing, learning HTML from scratch (I didn’t know any prior to starting the guide!) and going back and forth figuring out which was the best way to display the guide content.

Contributors often get higher privileges. This is nothing new in the forum world.

@BossDogg-1898

The above provides me no comfort. It implies that there is much more frustration that is waiting for me.

Unless you’re writing complex guides like I created for MissCheetah, you’re only likely to hit two now well known bugs: Disappearing quotes when clicking the Reply button inside an individual post and then using the quote bubble icon in the editor window to quote the post, and maybe the cursor bug, which only appears to affect HTML code. If you’re using straight up forum markdown code (BBCode), it’s a non-issue.

Also, you’re expecting complex code to have no bugs. Good luck with that. Discourse has been notified of the disappearing quote bug, since it’s on the parser end and they’re the ones that make the forum software. That will hopefully get fixed sometime in the future. We can’t blame Blizzard for that though as it’s out of their hands.

@BossDogg-1898

Frustration would be an woefully inadequate descriptor and you’re not getting paid for it. Again this site should behave like a forum site not behave like an interactive command interpreter. If they want to offer players the ability to compose fancy html marked up guides then it should be implemented as a separate feature of the D3 site (probably something akin to Wordpress) and allow us to link to from the forums.

The parser we have was designed to let us create more interactive material than the old forum allowed. You can see that in the guide mentioned above. And as annoying as the bugs were, I had an easy workaround for them: creating the code in the editor, then copying to a file for each section. That way I could combine them all into a master file, copy, paste, and boom, fully functional post without the headaches.

It should be noted I had to do this with the old forum too as it had an obnoxious “Invalid HTML character” bug wherein a blank hard space was randomly generated by the editor and you couldn’t post until you found the exact spot it was in and deleted it first. And that could only be done by using the left/right arrows to move one space at a time until you found the spot that took two presses to move one space. Imagine that in a super long post. That’s way, way worse than having to copy the post text to a text editor and making a couple changes there and copying back to the forum editor. The old forum bug cost me upward of 20-30 minutes per occurrence. The current line wrap bug? Maybe 20 seconds if I’m slow or groggy. And it only happens if I’m editing a post after having submitted it first. It doesn’t happen on freshly created posts except under one circumstance: copying forum hyperlink code from here like thread titles and pasting it into the editor window.

@BossDogg-1898

I realize this may come across as me complaining about my jail cell, complete with its functioning toilet, small window and slighted dented bars, while you are in html editing hell (solitary confinement) with no toilet, no window, no light, no rec. time, and no monetary compensation. I get it, but jail is still jail… and in this case its detention without probable cause, with no means to redress grievances, and I paid for the privilege. So unlike the vast majority of posting player base I’m speaking up because my entertainment dollars have value and I’m standing up because of unfair treatment.

I’m sorry, but your entertainment dollars have nothing to do with the forum. That just buys access to the game. The game license gets access to the forum as a privilege.

You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill and getting your knickers in a knot for no good reason. Learn what works and what doesn’t, work around things that are currently broken and move on. Even with TL3 I still have to work around broken or missing things (like lack of CSS for the end user which cripples any forum elements that require HTML 5 as HTML 5 requires CSS for full functionality).

[Steve-6849]

What I don’t understand is why OP can’t take his essay/issue and press contact support and go to the forums part of it and wait for a response from Blizzard themselves

[BossDogg-1898]

@TheTias-1192

Not really. The only issue for the end user here is if someone physically accesses their computer. If someone knows that there are others that can gain physical access to their computer and they are not using the settings that force login when the screensaver is enabled or when sleeping the computer, that’s on them, not Blizzard. Failure to use common sense security measures on your end is not a Blizzard failing, that’s a PEBKAC issue.

This is an over generalization. Simple scenario. Use the forum and account management site as described in my prior post. Laptop exhibits some (perceived) odd behavior to the end user. End user brings laptop to a repair service tech. Maintenance man can now stumble upon full access to either forum site or account management site under the laptop owners credentials. Again the end user will not have any clue that they are not fully logged out, which is the dangerous scenario that I described.

Most people do not follow a religiously lock your screen mind set in their own home. However, mobile users, in my experience as a support tech, are more likely to slip up with physical security. Even minor lapses like leaving one’s device among trusted friends, just to use the rest room, can end in some very bad scenarios. So while PEBKAC is a thing I’m not talking about excessively risky behavior or error borne of severe technical/security ignorance. Besides the multi-sign-on/off design flaws have been thoroughly documented.

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@TheTias-1192

FWIW, a lot of sites use this behaviour where highlighting and copying hypertext words (links), whether they’re URLs or URLs hidden behind text like [this] results in copying the link, not the page text. That’s just something you’ll need to get used to. It’s standard fare even on other forum sites.

I know you call it standard fare, but I know that you know better than that. This new forum site is designed to cater to mobile users and its done in a sloppy way. Its just plain lazy. Attempting to cloak it colorful language/descriptions makes you come across a disingenuous. I’m on a PC and I know that they can tell that I’m on a PC and not an Android mobile device. I have access to a right-mouse button, which affords me easy access to the context menu. They have purposefully rewired the highlight and copy behavior to violate the standard context menu behavior. There is a reason why we have Copy and Copy Link Location on a PC.

I know this reads like splitting hairs but its like changing the standard behavior of Neutral and Park in a consumer passenger vehicle. What’s worse is attempting to justify it by saying lots of other car manufacturers do it and besides the operator isn’t propelling the vehicle forward or backward when set to Neutral so… Neutral equals Park. Try it with your foot off of the break, on a hill, while in neutral, and the nose of the vehicle is pointed down hill. They alter the highlight/copy behavior and provide no warning to the user. Just let user discover (read: stumble upon it) the feature (read: broken behavior) and for extra points block the user from posting links. Yeah I’ll get use to it.

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A chunk of what you posted boils down to Blizzard is doing X with the new forum site because other sites (majority are other non-Blizz forum sites) are doing it so its OK. I find the “follow the crowd” argument to be a very poor rationalization for a set of choices/actions. Lots of people are having unprotected sex but that isn’t a reason follow. I’ve encountered worse implementations of this forum software and I treat those sites like Chernobyl (irradiated).

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@TheTias-1192

And don’t try to rag on MVPs for getting TL3

MVPs should have elevated privileges in the forums. There is a title, green text and probably some agreement they have to sign and adhere to, to keep their MVP status. Problem is I don’t see green text in your posts or a MVP tag associated with your battle tag. This isn’t a criticism of you and you are not the only non-MVP that was awarded elevated privileges. While you are not an MVP you are a well know forum regular. At more than 3400 posts in the old forum I doubt I would be classified me as a new jack. Unfortunately, our prior forum posting history had no influence on our status at new forum launch.

Lots of players write guides and I’m one of them, but I’m not asking for guide authorship priv’s. Everyone posting in this forum is a contributor, but not every contributor is a fancy html laced guide author or MVP.

There are sites that play favoritism with their user base. However, the majority of them do not require one to pay for the privilege to post. Just a small correction… if one does not have a valid D3 license which requires buying the game then one cannot post in this forum. Trial accounts cannot post in general or class specific forums. They can use the tech support and maybe the bug report forum. In short, I’m paying for the privilege to post just the same as you did. Paying for the game is my entertainment dollars at work.

So why am I (and so many others) being prohibited? Am I posting cat GIFs or other nonsensical content in multiple threads? Am I engaging in threatening or malicious behavior? Am I engaging in trolling spree activities in the forums? Am I intentionally trying to start trouble?

I just want to enjoy the privilege I paid for and not be harassed by a crappy interactive command interpreter, or hobbled by a sloppily conceived rule set, which amounts to a partially functional, poorly designed baby monitor, complete with like click metering of all things.

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Expecting code to have no bugs? I’m advocating for a reduction in feature set so that the code can be simplified which includes the rule set and all this underlying client side browser script code.

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@TheTias-1192

And as annoying as the bugs were, I had an easy workaround for them: creating the code in the editor, then copying to a file for each section. That way I could combine them all into a master file, copy, paste, and boom, fully functional post without the headaches.

Congrats. You are smart enough to circumvent the flaws in this system to achieve and end. It doesn’t change the fact that the new system is flawed to begin with. If you are composing sufficiently complex posts then you are better off using a tool a designed for the task.

True story:
I once purchased a man’s business suit and had it altered by the same store. The tailor they hired used Elmer’s glue to create the hem in pants. This was a $600 business suit that was a gift. What’s worse is the hem was crooked. The suit was ruined. Can you imagine the look on my face when I realized the hem was glued?! The tailor said he could fix the hem by removing the glue with nail polish remover and then re-gluing it. No thanks MacGiver just keep the suit and return the money.

Moral of the story: Don’t try to create a typeset document with a cobbled together interactive command interpreter. Its just not worth the effort beyond one’s own edification.

@Steve:
Multiple issues (plural) which support does not address design flaws and conflicting rule sets. Even something simple as quoting something that has a link in it still prevents me from completing a post action. I’m not the only person posting in the forum that has encountered these issues. Just in case I’m wrong you can correct me.

[Steve-6849]

@BossDogg-1898

@Steve:
Multiple issues (plural) which support does not address design flaws and conflicting rule sets. Even something simple as quoting something that has a link in it still prevents me from completing a post action. I’m not the only person posting in the forum that has encountered these issues. Just in case I’m wrong you can correct me.

From what I read the issue in your 1st post is not being able to log into the forums, even though you somehow managed to log in anyway to make the post, so send your first post here to the forums support area so that people that know how the forums work and where things can go wrong can go through what you are doing and tell you how to fix it or they can go to whoever and get the problem fixed if need be
If you want to make excuses as to why you can’t do that and can’t be bothered asking the people in the know and go off at people because they don’t have the issue and everything has to be done your way, then as far as I can tell there is no help for you

[BossDogg-1898]

@Steve:
Thank you Steve. The original login in issue has been discussed. According to TheTias the login behavior is by design. Its because of the compartmentalization of the sub-sites within the battle .net network. Sure I can still post in the support forum just to get info. direct from a Blizz staffer.