I thought this build will be dead in patch 2.7.2
It’s getting nerfed. It’ll be maybe 5-7 tiers weaker, but it’ll still be one of the strongest Wizard builds. And it will require even less fishing than it does now, since you won’t have to grapple with the suboptimal Images AI.
Another two builds that require relatively less fishing are Impale DH (particularly if you use the new Chemical Burn version) and Frenzy Barb.
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You’re talking about the Firebird set in general and especially Flame Blades right? From experience that build does play similar to Impale DH and especially Frenzy Barb.
However, these builds are only less fishy if you equate ‘fishing’ with ‘fishing for trash density’ and ignore ‘fishing for elites’. The less a build relies on the former, the more it tends to rely on the latter.
Yet whereas you can control for trash density by fishing for open maps, elites are much more difficult to control for as you need to actually play through the rift to see what elite monster types/affixes crop up.
So ultimately what one considers ‘fishy’ depends on player preference. Do you prefer to rip keys and ‘menu simulate’ until you get an open map with great density, giving you an elevated chance for a clear? Or do you prefer to play through every rift hoping for good elites, with little control over your chance of success at the start? Personally I pick the first option.
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It looks like Inna Monk is going to be totally OP even without luck in season 25…
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Honestly, I have zero experience with builds where you have to jump from elite to elite in solo pushing, so I have to ask: what are the elite affixes (besides of Juggernaut) that are bad for this kind of builds, especially for frenzy barb?
On Maxroll it says that frenzy barb lacks AOE damage, which indicates that it’s an elite hunting build.
https://maxroll.gg/guides/savage-frenzy-barbarian-guide
I haven’t pushed much myself - only a few handful of keys to improve my own personal best(s) so I don’t have much personal advice to give. The general idea is that there comes a time, when going higher and higher, that your own raw damage doesn’t cut it anymore and you have to rely on maps, mob types, pylon spawns etc plus luck and rng. So that even battlefields or festering woods alone aren’t enough to ensure succes… which you already know of course.
The tempest rush version totally dumbed it down. On season 24 the only luck needed is ‘no perendi’.
Compared to everything else, it is right up there with FB.
If you want the best class for worst grifts try an invoker crusader. Sewer tunnels are like festering woods for them (less density the better to focus on elites).
Otherwise inna monk. Fastest, most damage, pretty tanky.
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Yep, exactly.
This is an interesting perspective on fishing. And, you’re obviously right that some elites are better than others. However, every build has a certain GR range between “the highest tier you can do, once” (i.e. your top clear) and “the highest tier you can complete, 100% of the time”. For density-fishing builds, this range is a lot higher, and for elite-fishing builds, lower.
The two builds I have guides for are Frenzy and Leapquake. I’m a good Frenzy player, but better at Leapquake. And, it’s been pretty well proven at this point that Leapquake is a bit stronger at the top end. But, even though Leapquake is stronger, Frenzy is a lot more consistent. For instance, in this season, my top clear with Frenzy was 136, and with Leapquake, 139. But, I could run Frenzy 132s endlessly without ever failing, which I could definitely not do with Leapquake (my “no-fail” mark here was probably around 129).
So, I’d say that there is definitely a difference between “good elites” and “bad elites”, but that difference is less pronounced than the one between “good density” and “bad density”.
It varies a bit for each of these builds. The ones that are worst for Frenzy Barb are Juggernaut, Illusionist, and Health Link.
Yeah. Whether you factor in fishing or set it aside, Inna is the best, period.
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Inna monk is going to wreck this seson.
I feel kind of dirty doing it but i might start with inna, lol…
inna monk gonna be the best in every category by far next season
True true, the gap between best and worst rift is certainly more pronounced for builds relying on density. However I’m assuming the OP was asking about solo “pushing”, hence they are only concerned about achieving “the highest tier you can do, once”. In that case you’d have to fish hard, for either type of build.
Since I’m much better versed in builds relying on density, as I obviously prefer those, I’ll cite multishot as an example of a build that achieves very consistent results, provided you fish for open map. This is partly because very few elite affixes are extremely detrimental for multishot, the worst being waller but that is more tractable than for many other ranged builds.
That’s interesting that Health Link could ever be a bad affix. Admittedly I never played Frenzy barb, so how does that work?
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I’m actually not 100% sure! One of a relatively small number of things I don’t know about Frenzy Barb. But I’m inclined to say it’s a bug that prevents Stricken from stacking at the proper rate.
Yeah, that’s true. But let me put it this way: “the highest tier that you (or I) can do, once” is different from “the highest tier that somebody could do, once”. And that’s considering just “more fishing!” and setting aside things like better gear, higher paragon, more skill, etc.
Somewhere on Maxroll, I believe they give an estimate of 10,000 keys to really make it more likely than not that one would get perfect, or near-perfect conditions (maps, mobs, pylons, pylon order, boss, etc). That figure sounds about right to me. And obviously, very few (maybe zero) people are willing to spend that many keys on a single push. The most I’ve ever spent personally was around 3000, which I think most people would consider slightly crazy.
So when the OP gives a ballpark “1k +” keys, I know that number is not even close to the threshold where ideal conditions become very likely (in at least one rift).
To get that “perfect” clear with either Frenzy (elite) or Leapquake (density), maybe you would indeed need to spend 10,000 keys in either case. But, if you only spent 1000 keys, you’d see your Frenzy clear drop only a little, but your Leapquake clear would drop a lot. Or in other words, with Frenzy, 10% of the effort gets you 50% of the profit. But with Leapquake, 10% of the effort gets you only maybe 20% of the profit.
So, if somebody’s “fishing threshold” is 1000 keys, and no more, then Frenzy is going to come out looking relatively stronger, and Leapquake relatively weaker. It’s only when you get up to the truly huge numbers of keys spent that those fishing effects would even out.
I’m basically certain of that for these two builds in particular, anyway. I’ve never played Multishot competitively so it could be the overall mechanics are different enough that somewhat different rules would apply.
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Invoker is all about finding a string of yellow elites without illusionist/jugg affixes, then finding conduit with high progress trash around. It can be very fishy in high end push.
Invoker is fun when you can actually target what you want to hit. I have a couple primal pieces and aug gems. I might try a 130. You up for it? Lol.
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Probably the Inna’s fire mystic ally Monk for season 25 if they leave it as it is.
I got up to GR135 with Invoker. Fishing takes a bit longer because you usually play what is served until you realize it isn’t going to work.
I mean seasonal. The top right now is 130. Something fun to do? I don’t know. I was trying some 129s, had no problems with elites, but the trash keeps blocking everything. My silly first thought was to use bombardment but the set doesn’t give any multipliers so it’s not so great that high so my weapon cube was pretty much wasted along with a skill slot. But here’s a good dmkt question:
Will depth diggers work with invoker now with the upcoming patch? It is a primary skill that does damage… I never thought to try it on ptr.
Inna monk.
Or so I have heard.
I tried it.
Didn’t like the play. Salvaged everything.
Monk has started to get very boring with many, if not all the good ones, using Tempest Rush.