The only thing I find wrong with the post is that they balance around non-season and not season. In Season 18 and 19, the buffs effected different sets differently within the class.
You’re right though, they can tune them to be more equal even in non season. Simple number adjustments.
So far we’ve identified the buff for both S6 and UE6 to complete a 130 with 5000 paragon, the goal set by the devs.
For UE it’s a 5 times buff. We’ve suggest putting that on the 4 piece so instead of the 4 piece reading something like this: You take 60% less damage and deal 60% more damage for 8 seconds if no enemies are within 10 yards of you.
To: You take 60% less damage and deal 700% more damage for 8 seconds if no enemies are within 10 yards of you.
I’ll bold that part of the OP.
For S6, it needs about a 2.5X buff so the 2 piece should be buffed to 12,000% damage and the 6 piece to 125,000% percent damage.
That should put the two sets where they pretty much belong to get through a 130 Grift at 5000 paragon.
I think this is the season themes’ purpose and source of fun - a flat +%dmg will be very balanced, but wouldn’t it be too boring?
Just curious - how did you test it?
a few thoughts:
UE should be based on UE grenade instead of UE multishoot, so that we’re not making multishoot rules all from speed farm to GR pushing. This also means there should be some buff to grenade from Hellcat to beat current Multishoot.
Adding every buff in 6 pieces bonus may be better. This prevents any broken 6+4 builds from N6 damage. Having some 4 pieces damage is actually more interesting, but unfortunately this caused balance problems in D3.
It hasn’t been tested but About 120 or so is tops for UE with around 5000 paragon according to the non-season leaderboards. So it needs a 5X buff to get it to 130.
125 or so is tops for Shadow so it only needs a 2.5X buff to do 130 at 5000 paragon.
And I want to add that Blizzard said they are balancing around non-season and set those parameters of 130 at 5000 paragon is the goal for every class.
Also, whether you buff the six piece or the 4 piece of UE they both effect UE the same. If you want to improve UE Grenades then the thing to buff is Hellcat (edit#2) in addition to the suggested buff of UE.
Edit:
I would like to hear your suggestion about buffing Hellcat though. It’s pretty RNG based so adding bounces will just make it more so. They could program it so that the grenades all bounce in the same place which would improve the damage but limit it AoE. Or they can leave it the same and just buff Hellcat to some number that I’m not good enough at math to figure out.
I did see that post, and this sentence angered me even more! We are not asking to get something every patch. We are just asking to be treated the same as the other classes. The truth is that DHs have gotten nothing for a very long time, unlike all the other classes. So the arguments above are unfair. And even though we will get a set in S21, they could easily have given us some kind of buff this season, just as they buffed the barb in S19 and are giving S20 to necros… but apparently devs hate DHs, or at least don’t give a damn about them.
I don’t mean to nitpick that post. But I’ll have to dig up the other one where she said that they were saving Necros and DH for last because they needed the most help. From reading, it sure read like they were going to make DH’s a class to see their improvement in possibly in this patch but rethought that when they found they needed the most help.
I believe it something like that in the blog post where they posted the criteria of 130 at 5000 paragon.
Now, maybe a lot us of read something into that that wasn’t there but I remember it that way at least.
Anyway, it’s good that they clarified that.
They at least admitted we need a lot of help in that blog post. Whether they always intended us to be last is irrelevant. All I know for sure is we need several things to happen in the patch intended for us, or we’ll be in the same boat we are now. That being, Behind Everyone Else.
I imagine the play style limitations of the current DH builds is the main problem.
Where is the capacity to group packs?
Effective melee damage with AoE?
Ability to really have two forms of offensive capabilities.
The barb WW and the other set were likely part of the same development effort, just more progress attained before DH’s could be helped. While both Monks and Barbs could also have zbuilds also. Then you have necro that can play that poison nova build with LoD. Yep DH are still dead last in the greater scheme of things.
You know, swap a 100% damage increasing ammy or one that gives you an extra passive for one that might, just might, give you a chance to randomly group mobs…
/sarcasm, but TBH if that mechanic was reliable or tied to a primary skill (like EF) to proc (like attacking with a primary skill gives a 50% chance to group mobs) it might be sort of viable??
Nope, nope and thrice nope. UE with CCR is very close to impale, even with aughilds. Yes, UE needs a buff, but impale is not twice as powerful (5 GRs)…at least, not on console.
I’m prolly risking being called a troll, or having a rant but I don’t think Blizzard gives a crap about DH. There’s been a lack of love for DHs since John Yang left D3 dev team…
I find it amusing that the latest patch PTR notes buff and improve barb, WD, wizard and crusader and ignore the weakest class in the entire game (solo and group). At least necro can run rat runs for XP/gear…we don’t even get that option!!!
As I said in my last post a week and a bit back, people here are too weak in their expectations and demands of Blizzard. With that attitude, we will get bugger sweet all when they do try and “fix” DH.
Anyway, back to lurking for this disenchanted old fart.
you misunderstand me - what i meant was necros can still enjoy group meta play (rat runs) and earn a crap load of paragon from it, to use on their solo characters to push solo LBs. DHs can’t do this, at least, not using a DH character/build for group meta…
Of course, solo wise, necro is near the bottom of the classes. LON rapidfire outperforms necro builds in solo pushes, but not by that much (=<5GR) and is useless in a group meta…
Yeah, I saw that. 2 GRs higher at 600 paragons lower. I personally think that that isn’t right. I can do a 119/120 with 1200 paragon on console (which is even harder than the PC version of the game due to the NG mechanic that we have to put up with sadly), and RF LON is at least 5 GR higher imho (with fishing of course). Only doing a GR120 with that much paragon is pretty shockingly bad imho.
Like I said, console is different than PC. And I think you said earlier that you can’t check PC in non-season and you shouldn’t anyway since it can be modded. But yes, on PC Shadow is about 5 GR above UE when compared with players with around 5000 paragon.
The average for players with 5000 paragon using both sets is UE is around 120 (120-122 or so) and Shadow is around 125 (125 to 128 or so), so yes it is 2 times stronger and to get both sets to 130 or a little above UE needs a 5X buff and Shadow needs around a 2.5X buff.
Console is identical [to the PC version of the game] other than the dreadful NG mechanic - if anything, we are held further back by it. Sets are identical. Once we get NG our DPS is identical to the PC version of the game. I am not seeing a 5 GR (including CCR set into the UE MS build) difference between UE MS and impale. Sans CCR, I’d agree, it’s around 5 GR. The problem is if they buff the UE set, then it’ll be stronger than the impale s6 build when CCR is factored into account. And, that is my concern.
Given that Blizzard seems to have issues with balancing this game, I am rather concerned that any potential DH buffs to existing sets will be unbalanced…
Again! The Season Buff Effects Different Sets Differently! That’s why they don’t balance around Season, so please quit using the Season Leaderboard on Console as a measuring stick for the balance of the sets. IT IS NOT ACCURATE!!!
Edit: And the averages I used in my previous post were with CC3 and Aughild’s factored in. When you have a similar buff to each set, CC3 and Aughild’s, you still wind up with the average being the same just lower numbers without them.
Shadow was always better than UE. If adding buffs to both didn’t make the difference disappear it just made the higher greater Rift the new average.
Before CC3, UE average was around 117 or so, while Shadow was 123 or so without Aughild’s. Do you see it now?
