Yeah, that much I knew. But a but a 50% damage boost from paragon would mean a smaller boost to UE’s damage than the 8x we had settled on. So would that be a 4x boost or something larger?
Let’s say again that you wanted to go from doing 120 to doing 133, and you were going to do this by adding paragon and adding a multiplier.
To go up 13 GRs you need to do 1.17^13 = 7.7x damage.
Getting to 5k Paragon gives you a 1.5x multiplier.
7.7 / 1.5 = 5.13, i.e. you’d need about a 5x multiplier (+400% damage).
Wow. You cleared that up fine. Thank so much.
And there’s two ways they can do this. They either give the set a higher damage percent per point of discipline (something like 1400% or maybe 1750% instead of the 350% it does now) or by doubling the multipliers on Yang’s and DML to 400% or 500% each instead of the 200% they do now.
Thanks, man. You’re awesome.
So, if attacking without either Yang or DML did 100 damage, then in their current state Yang would give you +200% (100 + 100 + 100), taking you to 300, and DML would triple this again (300 + 300 + 300), taking you to 900.
So if you need 5x, that means you need to get to 4500.
And to do that you need about a 6.7x multiplier on both Yang and DML:
100 * 6.7 = 670
670 * 6.7 = 4489
Sorry it’s a bit complicated… just remember that when you’re trying to add another multiplier just by increasing the multipliers on existing items, you’ve got to consider the multiplier that’s already there.
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Ah. This is where I put my confused face back on, but in all seriousness, thanks. So it’s just easier to buff the set and leave the items alone, though they could do it one way or the other or some combination of both.
Thanks again.
UE will need lots of help, one or the other, that much is clear but it wasn’t as much as I originally thought. Still, that’s a pretty big buff.
And that’s not even getting into whether they intend for a class to reach 130 with 5000 paragon with all of classes sets or just one. And if it’s latter, it might be whatever new set we get will be the one that’s intended to reach that goal.
The easiest way to buff UE would be in the UE 4 piece. Buffing this one set will help a favorite build, but not the class in general.
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Yeah, I keep forgetting about that 60% the set does if no enemies are near you. Buffing that instead of the other would require that it be buffed to around 300% from the 60% I think it would equate to the same as putting a larger buff on Multi-shot through Discipline.
That’s a really good call, Varadia.
Edit: And to your other point, I think, just in general that trying to improve the DH as a class or fix it in a general way is a bit too complicated of an issue for us to tackle.
So, I think taking it a set at a time and fixing those would be the easier solution. Our class just has too many problems that I fear would darn near need a full class re-work to fix. In my opinion.
Keep it up and you might have to change your avatar…
Thanks for all the input @Rage - you’ve brought a lot a clarity to some of the issues!
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You would of course have to separate out the damage boost from the damage reduction in this case. Because 300% DR would make you, let’s call it, “difficult to kill.” 
No worries, just trying to provide some small measure of assistance.
I will say, again, that I think it would be helpful for you guys to have one list of “buff ideas”, somewhere. I made this suggestion before, and I think it was taken as “one person should have absolute dictatorial power over all discussion”, but that is definitely not what I mean.
It’s just nice to have one place to look when you want to see most or all of the various ideas the community has discussed, rather than having to look at each post of a 450+ post thread, plus, probably, many other threads as well.
Then, if you want to go back over the list later and crunch the numbers on which buff you want to be how much, it’s easier to do. And if you don’t want to do that, that’s also fine.
It’s less “dictatorship” and more “recording meeting minutes”.
Idolis has been super energized and involved lately. I think that if he appended such a list to the bottom of the OP, and updated it whenever he felt like it, that would not be such a bad thing…
Yeah, that’s what I meant. The set bonus would read like this: You gain 60% damage reduction and 300% damage increase if no enemies are near you.
Edit: It currently reads something like this: You gain 60% damage reduction and 60% increased damage if no enemies are near you.
Edit: So, would just starting with what we’ve decided about UE be added to the OP.
Then we work on Shadow and when we come to a decision about what it needs, it would be added. And so forth and so on down the list of sets.
Then we work on items. And stuff just gets added to the OP as we come to decisions? I like that. I mean the thread isn’t mine and more belongs to all of us, but since I started it, I could definitely put a summary in the OP as things get decided.
Sure. Or, it doesn’t even have to be “settled” before you add it to the OP, it can just be stuff currently under discussion. It’s just nice, when you’re like “what idea was it we came up with, again?” to be able to find it right away rather than going on a scavenger hunt.
I know “gatekeeping” has a bad name, but some low level of it definitely makes life less bad. I mean, imagine 30 people commenting in your discussion, each of whom suggests an idea like “Buff Yang’s (or Karlei’s, or DML, etc) by 10%, then you’ll be OP”.
These are terrible ideas, not because Yang’s or Karlei’s don’t deserve a buff, but because those buffs are not nearly enough. “Everybody’s voice is important”, be damned. Anybody who suggest buffs like that is either trolling you guys or has no idea how the game works. I mean, you don’t want to be a jerk, but you don’t want to be a victim, either.
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Well for WD its as Raistlin PTR suggestion in PTR thread it centers around the lame use of stacking soul harvest and one item like the Lakumba bracer just have a fixed defense. Something like that DH needs.
Well both DH and WD are very mobile, and you most DH builds other then shadow focused on range attacks with augments all geared for increased damage greater distances from demons make DH not a match for multiplayer GRs. Take a lesson from hydra build make number of sentries active increasing your defense quite a bit with marauder or hybrid. Come up with ways to increase DH damage when closer. I enjoy UE but to maximize damage you got to get as far away as possible is not affording some versatility. 
Just wanted to ask the question again, would there be any benefit to removing the tie to Discipline, and having a flat damage multiplier?
Might make gearing somewhat easier, but has the added advantage of trading off Disc rolls for extra resistance/armor?
The thing about tying it to Discipline is to ensure that we have enough discipline for use of our vault skill. At least I think that was the intent the devs had when they first created the set.
But that was before Yang’s became a thing with it’s resource cost reduction bonus. So yeah, now they could do something like that but our six piece bonus would read as over 30,000%.
We need look no further than our Shadow set for how other classes would react to such a high number on the set bonus.
Folks freak out that Impale has 75,000% percent multiplier even though it isn’t really a multiplier. The bonus is actually that the skill does 75,750 damage instead of the 750% the skill does on its own.
Yeah, was more meaning that the rolls wouldn’t need to be so specific. It seems if you get an item without +Disc, unless it has GG rolls everywhere else, it’s pretty much vendor trash.
LOL I can already hear the “power creep” screams.
I wasn’t sure if a flat damaged multiplier might have been easier to adjust, rather than adjusting the tie to Disc. Or finding way to get more Disc.
That also then giving the bonus of making +Disc a personal choice, rather than have to have it or trash the item. It could become a trade off.
This makes so much sense…when I’m on the edge of my UE capability in a GR, I’m vaulting quite a bit and if Prep is on cooldown, my damage drops significantly until I can pop it again.
It also opens up so many more options on gear - oh, that Primal DML rolled with no disc and impale damage - not having that MANDATORY disc roll (for UE) means you can roll the impale to MS or CDR and not gimp yourself.
Unless they decide to add native disc rolls to Yang/DML/UE Chest, this would be a great alternative and IMO a better one actually.
Speaking of that is the 6 pc Impale set bonus that deals an additional 75,000% weapon damage to the first enemy hit really that useful? I mean I enjoy one shot isolated elites, but if you got two elites surrounded by scores of demons how much use is it really? Kinda curious if there was some suggestion that might make this more useful?
So would we put that under "To give easier gearing for Unhallowed Essence, the six piece bonus will not be determined by discipline but instead a flat multiplier.
The six piece will now be: Your generators, Vengeance, and Multi-shot deal 30,100% more damage."
Edit #3: I just realized since I edited the first post that I alone am responsible a full 1/4 of all replies in this thread, lol.
Edit: I like that, I really do. But it makes Discipline even more useless than it already is. It bring to the forefront that our resource bubble shouldn’t be split in two. All skills should just cost Hatred with a larger pool but we weren’t designed that way.
So I’m not sure if high lighting that would be the best thing in the developers mind.
Edit #2: I hate that I can’t reply to this subject more than once at a time. Meaning that if I answer one post and want to also reply to another I have to wait until someone else posts. So I’m left with editing my posts.
But as far Drakiok’s suggestion about Impale and the Shadow Set.
I think it’s a way to make it that Ricochet and Overpenetration don’t become really over powered. I mean, they’re already the go to runes because of how Karlie’s Point works but if they let those runes do their full bonus to everything they hit, Shadow would out do a lot of builds in the trash clearing department and we would go back to the old style of game play where it was more efficient to skip elites and just kill trash with that build at least.
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I’ve always thought it a weird mechanic, that your damage it tied to Discipline. But not even how much you have, but how much you can have. But there was obviously some chain of thought for it at sometime.
Now it seems there maybe multiple benefits to not having that tie.
LOL well it does make sense as it’s your thread and you’d be replying to a lot of the thoughts and ideas.
These new forums do have some strange quirks
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Maintaining discipline and hatred pools is one of the skillsets that makes running a DH an enjoyable challenge over the long term.
Yes, when running UE excessive vaulting comes at a cost, but so does pretty much any movement when you are running Endless Walk with any build.
I wouldn’t mind having guaranteed disc rolls on UE specific gear, but I also don’t mind the grind. Just makes finding that perfect piece even sweeter.
Adding disc to Hunter’s Wrath would be a good idea and would add another gear option to our tool box. It probably wouldn’t be a part of the cookie cutter builds, but would be fun to dink around with.
The fact that a class that wears cloaks has less native damage resistance that classes that wear armor does make sense. The ability to improve our toughness via skills, jewelry, equipment and paragon also makes sense and should be what we focus on for future sets and buffs.
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