I wish they can buff strafe tho. It’s a really fun skill but it seems so weak compared to barb’ WW. Imagine seeing you and your friend both spinning and killing demons lol, man that would be fun. But ww barbs are high up there and strafe is just weak in general to even contribute and compete.
True, but I think the reason for that is two fold. One, Whirlwind has a dedicated set. And two, they did something to Whirlwind internally along with the addition of Bul-Kathos which allowed the other sword set to work relatively as well if not better.
I want to say it was something to do with co-efficients or something like that. But basically Whirlwind is better than Strafe because they did something to it beyond just giving a set and supporting items but to the skill itself and didn’t do the same to Strafe.
For ww/rend, the big thing was to have Ambo’s pride auto-apply rend while whirl-winding.
However, when you have someone who disagrees vigorously, it does not make it class buff proposals.
If you have read the barb buff proposal, they proposed changes to 38 items/set bonuses and 8 passives.
See:
They also argued primarily buffs to supporting legendaries, but a 2X DPS boost to a supporting legendary is functionally equivalent to a 2X bonus for set bonus.
Yeah, there was that. But I’m talking about something that happened long before the Barbarian Proposal was even conceived. It happened right after RoS came out and the Wastes set became a thing.
But for the life of me, I can’t remember what it was. But I do remember several DH’s bringing up that the same thing, whatever it was, should be done to Strafe, but it wasn’t.
Auto applied Rend on hit WAS a bad idea, until they gave another supporting legendary that buffed Rend.
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@Phoenix
Sorry for the confusion. I should have made a longer quote:
Also, hard casts of rend DO proc area damage.
Back on topic: For patch 2.6.8, buff each dh set by at least 2X DPS wise. It still leaves room for further optimization in patch 2.6.9.
Before this goes too far, Micro and Pheonix, Barbarian skill discussions belong in Barbarian threads unless those skills relate to DH’s.
I’m not trying to be a prick. I just wanted to say that before this thread devolves into something ugly like it did last night.
Thank you if you guys can help with that.
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Trust me I do not want to relitigate things, but whirlwind came up and there was “advice” given about the best way to advocate for change. There has been some liberties with the truth.
I think you do. You seem to love the drama.
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Understood, Micro. I’m not going to take sides in this. I have no idea how Barbarians work for the most part so it would be hard for me to have a competent discussion on the issue, thus I stay out of Barbarian threads.
You guys have issue with each other that I don’t understand either. So I’ll stay out of that as well.
I hope you folks can work it out. Sincerely.
Just please, and again, I’m not trying to be a jerk about it, keep it out of this thread.
No problem at all, wasn’t attempting to pick a fight. Just clarifying a point.
Actually it kind of is relevant to this thread though.
It shows that changes/buffs to one supporting legendary may not be the complete answer. It may take a multiple headed approach to buffing particular items and/or how they work or interact with each other.
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The choice to change a support legendary (or 2) versus a set bonus is personal preference. A 4X set bonus is equal to a 2X bonus on two distinct supporting legendaries.
yeah, it’s the same discussion we’re having in the DH forums on how to buff sets between Marauder’s and N6/M4. If we go about it the wrong way, N6/M4 always winds up stronger than straight Marauders. It also plays smoother to a certain extent.
Essentially, our class illustrates the problem of mixing class sets together. The devs tried to nip it in the bud but a player revolt resulted in them changing their minds. So we’re stuck with a set that almost no one plays because the mixed set will always be better in almost every circumstance. So buffing items is what we’re left with and if new items come along they have to be made to work one set over the other even they both do the same thing.
I don’t think you have to tie it in with movement. Technically the IB buff is simply achieved by spending wrath and it’s just ww is the most effective way to do it and with BK it’s just, well, there for the wrath regen and tied to ww for the attack/movespeed bonuses…hence my “combo” of those two sets.
That would make Danetta’s relevant which I believe many in the DH community would dig. You’d still have to do some work to boost the DPS of the skill like changing the 4pc on Nats to buff Strafe instead of RoV, not sure of what the numbers would have to be to make it relevant though.
It would take a small chunk out of hybrids, but let’s be honest there, nobody is using N6/M4 for the 4pc Nat bonus to RoV 
so it would give another option to use N6.
I’ll leave it to dmkt and the the others to come up with the math…
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Yeah, that sounds about right. I wouldn’t be able to set the numbers either. Not very good at math.
As far as changing Nat’s, I don’t know. I’d kind of like to see it but killing one of our top performing builds would be a problem for some players. There was a DH player backlash when the devs considered lowering the bonus to Sentries that Marauder’s gave from 400% to 100% a few PTR’s ago because “it would kill N6/M4”. At the time very few people were using it but folks were starting to see the potential but it was still in the experimental phase as far as players messing with different abilities.
Some were using Elemental Arrow with Augistine’s in the build and others were using Sword of Ill Will in the build for chakrams because of the easier resource management with those skills.
But the devs changed their minds to keep the Marauder’s bonus as is and eventually Multi-shot and Cluster Arrow became the items for the build making N6/M4 far outstrip Unhallowed Essence and Marauder’s in the process.
So messing with that build could cause the same consternation the suggestion did back then.
But a new set built around Strafe, and re-working Danetta’s to be Bul-Kathos, I think would get folks excited, but only if the set outshined N6/M4.
It was a littel bit different, iirc. N6M4 was a niche build for quite some time, and a few players used it. But it was never popular, as it was weaker than other builds and more difficult to equip, as “damage boost” and “cost reduction” was divided into two items (Krider+quiver, Ill Will + quiver).
That changed in 6.1 with the reworked Mantikor. During this PTR, N6/M4 with CA became very popular, and in contrast to S2M4 a loooong time ago, it was quite balanced with the other builds. However, I feared a nerf incoming (like: “N6 was not intended to work with Sentries, just as S2”). Thus, I started a topic “Please don’t nerf it, because it is perfectly balanced”. I actually got a bluepost on this “Sorry, bad news, in the next PTR iteration it will not work any more …”.
This got some huge attention from the DH community, including wudijo (not that active here in the forums, but a well known DH player with a lot of knowledge and skill). At first, we convinced them to let N6 and Sentries work together, but with a reduced M4 bonus. And after are more detailed consideration, we got the 400% back.
During this time the developers have gained a lot of respect from me. It was an honest discussion on equal terms, and at the end we had the better arguments.
The main reason why N6 + Sentries is fine is, that the pure CA-M6 build is built around Hellcat, and that one doesn’t work with Sentries.
N6/M4 with Multishot however is another option (dmkt could say a lot more about it), but the damage is split into two items here, with no proper RCR, which makes it quite hard to play. The damage part may change in the next season, but the hatred issues will remain, probably.
Regarding N6: I would like to see a proper N6 build somehow. Just as some others already wrote, it should be something with Strafe, so it doesn’t interfere with N6/M4. For that, the damage of RoV could be buffed, but that would result in another nasty Hellcat-Build (I really really don’t like this), and probably a highly complicated build with optimized cooldown reduction. Do you remember these old EF/Strafe rota guides when N6 was the strongest set? Örgs. I really don’t want this back.
So, I would like to see some huge buff to Strafe while RoV is active. Don’t know whether changing Danettas would be the best method, as Danetta has quite some fans for speed builds. But on the other hand, it would be pretty cool if we actually could use our weapon set.
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Apologies, Hebalon.
My memory was off then. Thanks for correcting me.
No apology necessary. If you ever get an answer from a developer, it will burn into your memory. That’s why I remember it. 
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Hello, I’ve setup a survey so that we can all vote on how they should approach the buffs – please visit this link to take the survey :
~http://www.poll-maker.com/QBT3A8I
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Sweet idea dmkt…only suggestion (might be too late) is that there’s no way to not answer some of the questions (GR levels and tankiness) if you don’t play those builds. I’ve never played LoN RF so I have no idea how many GRs it needs to be buffed or how tanky it is 
Oh … and wonder who the troll that commented the below is:
DH is just fine. Don’t do anything to the class
I mean seriously??
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