Where are the DH players?

Yes, this would be a good start, and Spike Traps is iirc one of very few skills that could be the base for a new set, as most other skills are already used by other sets. (I would also like a pure EA set with “gains the effect of every rune (or at least Immolation Arrow)”, but that would include too much lags, probably).

But in it’s current state Spike Traps are terrible to use, imho. Maybe (fingers crossed!) we have to wait for another patch because they are planning to rework this skill from the scratch, so it becomes actually playable …

If I were more creative and liked more than the Multishot build I’d be chiming in with tons of ideas but I’m honestly just jumping from wow, d3, and ff14 until the ff7 remake is released in april…

I know one of the things I did in the past was at least try to propose legendary ideas that were interesting beyond simple number bloat. Unfortunately, with the old forums gone, I can’t exactly point back to them as a quick reference. Finding strict numbers to adhere to has also never personally been my mission, as it’s also something I’m not being paid to do. In fact, I’m more keen on proposing an idea in an OP fashion simply because if people actually do think it’s OP (and not just stupid), it means something could be tweaked to bring it more in line.

Nonetheless, let’s just look at the ranged weapons for the class:

  • 8 Items without powers: Unbound Bolt, Syduru Crust, Venomhusk, Longshot, Bakkan Caster, Starspine, Arcane Barb, Deadeye, Blitzbolter
  • 3 Items that only augment elemental damage: Uskang, Balefire Caster, Etrayu
  • 15 items that have a lackluster power: Cluckeye, Kridershot, Leonine Bow of Hashir, Odyssey’s End, Windforce, The Raven’s Wing, Demon Machine, Pus Spitter, Hellrack, Chanon Bolter, Helltrapper, Valla’s Bequest, K’mar Tenclip, Calamity, The Demon’s Demise
  • 7 Items commonly used in some manner: Yang’s Recurve, Buriza Do-Kyanon, Manticore, Wojahnni Assaulter, Dawn, Fortress Ballista, Lianna’s Wings

That’s 7 weapons out of 26 that anyone sane would consider for endgame, and of those 7, some are cube only or further niche in builds that have fallen off over time.

Quivers have a relatively similar issue even if there might be some obvious weapon pairing ideas.

  • 6 Pretty much never used: Fletcher’s Pride, Emimei’s Duffel, The Ninth Cirri Satchel, Augustine’s Panacea, Black Bone Arrows, Archfiend Arrows
  • 5 Used somewhere: Spines of Seething Hatred, Sin Seekers, Holy Point Shot, Bombardier’s Rucksack, Dead Man’s Legacy

Using pending and prior updates, we can probably hope for 3 item tweaks at most, and it’s further likely that those 3 tweaks will correlate to the new set. That’s 3 out of 27 arguably useless main/off-hand drops in our pool.

However, we also can’t ignore some of the class-specific armor pieces. At best, they’re LoN fodder, maybe, but I’m just going to list the ones that aren’t really practical under current build conditions.

  • The Cloak of the Garwulf
  • Beckon Sail
  • Cape of the Dark Night
  • Cloak of Deception
  • Blackfeather

Note I just literally listed all of our cloaks. There’s also honorable mention to the age old request of UE’s body always rolling +Discipline as a secondary that hasn’t happened.

When it comes to other slots directly or tangentially related to DH skills, Visage of Gunes is used a fair bit. Death Watch Mantle is pretty much garbage, but I’d at least point to it as a candidate for LoN/FoK tweaking. Mantle of Channeling is pretty much solely RF/LoN. Wraps of Clarity are good, but not for every build. We have no real DH specific gloves unless you want to consider Tasker and Theo, but the appeal there died with the M6v1 change. Waists have some decent options among Hellcat Waistguard, Chain of Shadows, Hunter’s Wrath, and Crashing Rain, but things like Omryn’s Chain, Sash of Knives, and probably Zoey’s Secret need work (My choice being Sentries now follow the DH). Leg slots have nothing DH specific, with Depth Diggers probably being the most used in conjunction with UE while Yan’s is an item I’ve never liked and presently contradicts the expressed belief that stutter stepping shouldn’t be a thing (or at least required). Nothing DH specific in feet, with Illusory Boots probably being the go to choice for LoN if anything. Amulets also don’t really boast anything targeted to DHs, as well. When it comes to DH rings, all we have is Elusive for Shadow builds, but I’ll also forever groan at our relative reliance on CoE.

So, yeah… a lot to look at. And that’s before actually touching DH skills/passives. There might be some fun builds to play here and there, but efficacy is something obviously in the dumpster. The class has otherwise been on the receiving end of some of the game’s most heavyhanded nerfs and redesigns over time, with the aforementioned M6v1, Prep loop, proc tweaks/removals, smokescreen tweaks, DEX conversion issues, and more I’m likely forgetting off the top of my head. Saying Blizz hates the class may be harsh and hyperbole, but it’s also hard to feel like they care about it when we’ve either not been meta or reacted at with the nerf sledgehammer when we dare.

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This right here. I’ve also touched on this and pointed this out several times.

Currently, over 90% of high end successful builds in the game are melee/face tank builds and it’s been that way for a long time. Even builds that were designed/intended to be used at range are practically melee builds. A lot of this has to do with how the core of the game is played, which is centered around density+AD.

The problem is that there’s simply not enough incentive to play designed ranged builds at a distance, and for a class that is initially designed around ranged attacks and capabilities to keep at a distance, this really puts a damper on things as a lot of our skills don’t necessarily synergize with being up close. This forces us to rely on the very few skills that do well up close (grenades, impale) for higher clears which is sorta ironic. Nothing wrong with said builds. It would be nice to also see DH’s do what they were intended to do, which is lay carnage from all angles of the map afar.

Incentives such as steady aim, single out, UE4, squirts, zei’s and many more, don’t do nearly enough based on how GR’s have to be played. This is also compounded with the fact that ranged builds are also typically harder to play and execute. There’s also much more emphasis on our hatred resource. The only time we really value discipline is when it rolls on gear necessary for UE builds.

If the dev team can figure out ways to make range play significantly more rewarding, then by class design we’ll have more ways to reach high end GR’s along with standard buffs.

Simply doing a numbers tuning isn’t enough, but it could also be the reason why DH’s are last in this new balancing philosophy. I want to be optimistic, but I guess we’ll see.

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I dislike when people say this. We’ve done this on the DH forums for years and on PTR feedback. Dmkt made several well written and well backed by the community threads. Very little has come of it (so far).

We even complained and made multiple threads about not having a sticky in the new forum and it took months before they pinned one. This does not put forth confidence that our voices are being heard.

What more can we do when there’s nothing exciting to pull people to the class to even continue to discuss stuff as they have no new toys to play with? Even this current season when a few of us tried to have “skill change discussions” and they mostly fell on depth ears because people are occupied with the fun new toys from crusader/barb/monk.

I’m not saying we’re being completely ignored, but the motivation/drive to continue productive feedback requiring significant time investment from the community has been down spiraling.

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Well, i’m not really a pitchfork and molotov cocktail personality, but I wrote a post in the class forum because Nev said they read them:

Last minute buff requests, 5-7 GRs so nobody is frustrated when they see the DH icon in a group.

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Separate legendary items that does the same thing as Zei’s, but requiring MfD would make the class feel like a ranger.

Targets Marked for Death take 5% more damage for every yard between you and the marked enemy. Maximum 50 yards.

That’s 250% damage. Stick that on an Amulet!

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i don’t have much to add to this discussion. Most the points about DH issues, lack of group synergy etc have already been brought up here and many other times in other places, but as a returning long time DH player, I’m here to show support.

DH needs help. There are so many possibilities with sentries, strafe etc. I know that this is late game in d3’s life cycle, but giving Barb a new set after buffing them like crazy in s19 seems a bit unnecessary when DH has been completely neglected. Lets hope Blizz reads this and at least throws us a bone in S20

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Playing the classes that got the new sets, and rolling a DH again in S21 when she gets her new set.
I don’t understand why people limit themselves to one class in a game that has 7.

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Maybe it’s because despite the class falling behind others, they…I mean we like the class concept and none of the other classes or their sets match up with the concept of the class.

That’s just reason. If I wanted to spend more time explaining it to you, I’m sure I could come up with others.

Point is, I don’t criticize your choices and under no circumstances should you find it necessary to criticize ours.

Just sayin’.

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DH is one of my favorite classes. I just like others too, and appreciate new content for them. I accept they can’t do all changes at once and look forward to playing DH again once she gets her turn.

Just adding my voice in support of the comments made by many posters here.

The Demon Hunter, in its current state, needs serious rework in many aspects to make it a viable and enjoyable choice of character class to play.

Are you listening Kevin Martens?

(Martens is lead designer at Blizzard Entertainment since 2009 and co-creator of Diablo III)

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I did an overdose of “play that way” or “play solo”, while the devs team is doing a good job I just don’t have fun anymore on D3.
No bad feeling, most of this ride has been cool but I think it’s best for me to wait D4

DH players are silently waiting in the shadows for the chance to deal a critical hit… let all the other classes be the guinea pigs for how new sets are designed. Reduces the chance of a dud set.

Ah, who am I kidding… they’re all gonna start off as dud sets. DH players have been asking for a traps set and the only way it’s going to work properly is if Spiked Traps’ mechanics is revised. The skill sucks as is.

I think you misunderstood. That wasn’t a shot at DH’s who are fighting for buffs.

It was more aimed the the drooling pack that has done nothing but scream for nerfs to Barbs since the Rend buff got announced.

If they’d put half the effort into getting DH’s & Necro’s buffed, that they did screaming for Barb nerfs, things might have been changed already.

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Hey, I’ve got six accounts full of Demon Hunters, but I don’t plan anything but casual groups with a couple of guys in my clan because there isn’t really any place for a Demon Hunter in serious push groups.

On one account I still have a zDPS Demon Hunter, which is indestructible at GR100, gives incoming damage mitigation to the DPS, increases DPS for the entire group, and debuffs monsters. But no one really believes it works, so I can’t get it into a game. It’s pretty much just sitting there as a template so I can remember how to build the thing.

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Do you really want non-stop table threads in the DH / Necro forums?
Careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

I don’t fear it, because it doesn’t suit his agenda.

I keep checking those forums to see all his posts calling for buffs for the weaker classes. Zip, nada, zilch, nothing.

So yes, he is that much of a hypocrite.

Yeah, it’s not like we haven’t pointed that out to them.

Gone very quiet now his agenda has been shut down