What I HATE about Diablo IV Skill System - A Case for Character Building

Which interview was this?

Does anyone have the link?

He says you can max out all your skills.

That could mean you can max out all of your selected skills.

That could mean you can max out all your skills that you can choose from.

Which one is it and how do we know?


54:00

I went to the original interview and it is not clear there either.

Yes. He said you can max out all of your Skills.

He did not say you can max out all of your selected Skills.

  • We do not know how many Skills will be available to each Class.
  • We do not know how many Talents will be available to each Class.
  • We have been told that Blizzard will be expanding on Skills and Talents.
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they need to do something intuitive , easy to take in hand by casual but with something hard behind … this is what are they constraint actualy for the team dev…

And i think we should try to work in this way to do good comments.
I agree with OP who indicate exactly how u think about ur chararcter in a game , and this is real for all, we want to be unique.

I think they should do more branch, or more base for the tree of skill , i m not talking about smthg like POE but something logic about what i’m taking and what i gonna have after ( ex: wow classic ) . nothing too hard but good capacity of multiple build .

And maybe do something like in HARDCORE MODE we cannot change skill point like D3 …

I will make it real easy for you. The whole point of the argument is that one is role playing the class (D3). Or as I like to look at it role playing the name of the character. Now you have a character that can change his skills as needed.

As opposed to a person role playing a build that is locked in like D2. A build that cannot change unless you use respec tokens. That is not necessarily role playing the name of the character.

That is why I mentioned Conan if he were a D2 character. To make him according to what I know he would be a swordsman. If he found other strong axes, role playing the build in D2 would mean that he would either have to use a respec token or be re-rolled in order to specialize in using axes, means by spending points into axes.

If I understand what I have been reading on the forums. The acgtive skills are similar to another game that I have played on and off for a long while. It is called Secret World Legends. The whole idea of that game is that while you can focus on two weapons to make your build. You can unlock all abilities and passives if you play the game long enough.

D4 as I understand it will have a cap on the level of your skills. But with skill tomes you will be able to unlock and raise all skills to max level if you play long enough.

Since you can max out all your skills and respec your talents, it’s pretty much the same as D3, meaning no character customization :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
Activision Blizzard dissappoints me once again.

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also if you are only able, to equip 1 skill of each tier, you are very limited, too
so yes, they are doing the same mistake as in D3

The are trying to put D2 and D3 skilll sistem together, but it will not ever be enjoyable if itemization continues to gives +xxxx to atack and defense.
I doesn’t mater to put 10, 20 or 30 skill points on a build if you will need just to equip a mythic item to bost all your skill by +1000000000 dmg or defense bonus.

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This is the best write up I’ve ever seen on this issue.

Thank you so much for summarizing the exact issue with D4 and the direction they are headed.

Take notes blizzard.

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Diablo 3 + Diablo 2 system is a to-go-system for a new ARPG.
You forget that D2 skill tree system had 2 flaws that people absolutely hated about it.
1)it had no respec and when it was added it had terrible costs.
2)absolutely no freedom of customising your character. You was a blizzard sorc - and nothing more. Otherwise your character was absolutely useless in solo targetting and etc. You remember diablo farming characters and cow lvl farming characters? Yeah, right, very convenient thing to do.
D4’s system should have a skill tree, absolutely. But It should be merged with D3 system, otherwise like 1% of ppl will play it seriously from initial amount of players that can play this game.
Dont forget that Blizz want to monetize this game by some visual stuff. I cba lvling a new character from scratch for boss farming. Or after a missclick, and gearing them from scratch. That’s just plain stupid, in nowerdays realia.
“Times changed!..” Garrosh Hellscream.
No respec at all - no life for the game.
Now what about a “character progression” from lore point of view. Dont tell me that a 60-years old Druid can master only a bear form and dont even know how to turn into a wolf. Or a Sorceress, a person who literally spends her (cmon, it’s “her” :slight_smile: ) lifetime surrounded by books and knows only how to cast 3-4 spells. Ooh, noo, fireball is a big nono around here! Only blizzard!
I’m talking about building a competitive character.
I think that some people mix up a character progression system and a respeccing system. They should work together. And respec is a must-have in ARPG.

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D4 doesn’t have character building. They know this. That’s why you can change the physical appearance of your character. Everyone is gonna run the same cookie cutter build, but hey, at least you look different?

and that makes trillions of d2’s hammerdins different in what way?
Oh, yes, with a respec you can have one character that you gear up, not three for your different needs.

You’re missing the point. In D2 you could be a hammerdin, sure. But you could also be a smite-adin or an Auradin or a Zealadin. In D4, it looks more like each class is gonna be good at 1 thing and whatever the best thing is, that’s what people are gonna be.

In the age of information, things do get boiled into math numbers fast but that doesn’t mean there nothing developers can do about this. The problem is that developers are in fact doing too little to combat the cookie cutter builds.

Yes, cookie cutter builds will always creep up, and what happens instead of buffing other builds… you just nerf that build and then a new build will take it place and another nerf.

There’s just too much nerfing in video games lately, everything has to be a damn e sport and be competitive instead of it being fun.

Once you allow the game to be fun first and balance around that - more builds will become more viable and the power between cookie cutter builds and everything else will gradually shrink smaller. Never going away, but developers can fix it but they focus on the wrong kind of fixing.

Inboth D3 and D4 you can equip multiple skills from 1 tier.

Not quite, it will take time to max out our skills. You will need skill tomes and nothing says that you must use them. So you could just figure out what skills that you want to use then figure out the needed gear as you go along. Then when you reach endgame and you progress to get to the point of perfecting that build you can re-roll your character if you want to.

That is a big difference with D3. D3 you unlock your skills at full strength based on level.

Plus through talents you can customize the skills that you are using.

I don’t think that they will be going that route. They just choose those skills to showcase the class. Doesn’t mean that you cannot pick more than one skill per tier.

There is no way of knowing how strong the attack and defense will be at this point in time. They also said there will not be any really big gap in damage and defense like D3.

The problem is that a lot of players like role playing a build instead of role playing the name of their character.

Conan the Barbarian is one that is a swordsman. But in the Diablo universe it would be silly to have him say oh wait guys and gals I have to go back to level one or respec my skills so I can do a lot of damage with this axe because my sword got broken. No he could use that axe maybe not as skilled with it as a sword but he could still use it.

I highly doubt that we will see players running only one build per character. As long as there is no big gap in power from the best most optimal builds to the suboptimal builds. Then it won’t matter, you might be running cookie cutter A and I would be running an off the wall build that could still get the job done.

You might run a strong WW build, which I might be running an Indiana Jones Barb build

I have to see more before I can agree with you.

Even though no one likes nerfing it has to be done at times. Otherwise you run the risk of continual buffing that creates power creep.

What is really needed is for Blizz to set the bar of performance for all builds to strive for. Any that are too far away can be buffed or nerfed. Then make sure that you don’t raise that bar to fast.

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i rlly hope so
at least, the ultimates will be exclusive but thats ok imo
or shared cooldown

You’ve just described a character who has a sword build. Your character “is a swordsman” (talents and skills focussed around swords), but that doesn’t preclude him picking up an axe and using it without respeccing. You even said it yourself - “maybe not as skilled with it as a sword” (ie. no talents changed, build still focussed around sword damage) “but he could still use it.”

In a free respec world he would pick up an axe and, despite never having touched an axe before, with a quick respec, in a minute or so he would be as good with an axe as he ever was with a sword. That is silly.

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I’d like something where after you’ve put enough point in a skill, you get choices on how to enhance them based on what play style you like.

Something like a small skill tree for each skills that changes some functionality and if you chose one side you cant chose the other.

Say after 5 point in warcry, i can chose it to stun enemies or heal allies then other 5 points, it can deal damage or give defense. etc…

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