Wait... Is Lilith good?

General Discussion
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So she, daughter of Mephisto, had kids with Inarius, the angel, who together founded Sanctuary. They created it so there could be peace, away from the angel and demon perma-war they wanted nothing to do with anymore. They created the first nephalem.

Angels and demons alike were threatened by the power of the nephalem, and considered their entire being, a blasphemy. Inarius was indecisive about what to do with them. Many called for the genocide of the nephalem, but he wasn’t sure and went to reflect on the matter. Lilith, on the other hand, said “SCREW THAT NOISE” about her kids being all genocided. She started killing off those calling for the genocide of her kids, the nephalem, angel or demon – didn’t matter.

Inarius came back from his “vacation to reflect on the matter of killing all his kids” to find that Lilith killed all those calling for their deaths. He banished her to the void, since he had made a vow to never harm her. Meanwhile, humanity (who I guess came from the nephalem) started summoning demons so the Prime Evils became aware of Sanctuary.

Lilith escaped the void and was hellbent on revenge. But I mean, it seems kind of just. She was only trying to protect her kids from all being murdered. She was peaceful before that. But anyway, she started gathering her own following of nephelem. Inarius ends up banishing her to the void again tho.

Mephisto ended up torturing Inarius in hell, twisting his body, ripping off his eyelids with mirrors everywhere so he had to look at it all day and night. I mean he was probably pretty pissed about him and his daughter and all. But since the black soulstone was destroyed, he had no jailer anymore and escaped or was released. And he doesn’t care about his vow to never harm Lilith this time around.

Now D4 happens. Lilith is apparently summoned back into the mortal world again by an unknown person in the cinematic. Likely a cultist from her first time back before she was banished a second time. I think both of them have cults or something.

But it kind of seems like Lilith is the one in the right here. She just wanted to be left alone and protected her kids from being killed. What’s so wrong about that? Everyone else seems like the baddie.

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While Lilith wanted to prevent the Nephalems from being killed, it wasn’t out of a maternal love and/or the goodness of her heart. It was because Lilith didn’t wish to lose powerful tools of weapons that were the Nephalems. Lilith has no true love for Nephalem or Humans, she simply sees them as a weapon that she can use to defeat both Heaven and Hell and end the Eternal Conflict, and she has no quarrel of using and/or sacrificing humanity if it enables her to reach her goal.

Something to keep in mind, not all of the renegade angels or demons sought to kill the Nephalem, instead some wished for them to live (such as the angel Lycander, an angel who loved a Nephalem, or Bul-Kathos’ parents). Despite that, Lilith killed nearly all the renegades regardless of their stance on the matter.

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Ahhhh ok, I didn’t know that. So she was tired of the war, but wants both sides destroyed. Ok. And the nephalem are a route to that end. I’ve never looked into the lore of Diablo, even tho I love the games so much. I’m going to need to research this more. It’s actually very interesting.

So, is Inarius insane now? Is that what’s going on? All that torture with Meph. He tried to kill her in the trailer. But he had a vow to never harm her.

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Yeah, she tired of the war lasting forever, and grew tired of seeing Mephisto, Baal, and Diablo lead, as she believed that the war will never end with them at command.

Hard to say. But it seems that Inarius had recovered (to an extent), both physically and mentally from Mephisto’s eons-long torture. Despite that, I think he’s still insane, it’s simply to a different degree. As for the vow, yeah, it seems that he no longer cares about keeping it, although him going insane may had played a part in him no longer caring. That said, if he did truly change his mind, I wouldn’t be surprised considering the following:

  • Lilith’s one of the primary factors for Inarius’ plan/ambition failing.
  • Inarius spent centuries untold as a prisoner of Mephisto, Lilith’s father, and was tortured relentlessly during said time.
  • Inarius no longer has the Worldstone and thus lost access to his augmented power that he wielded during the Sin War, as well as the ability to trap others within the Void.
  • Although, even if Inarius still had the Worldstone and thus the ability to trap Lilith into the Void, it’s effectiveness may come into question. Because Lilith has now escaped from the Void twice, as such as far as Inarius is concerned trapping her in the void is no longer a sound strategy for keeping her from meddling.
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Wait… Is Lilith good?

No, she wants to destroy us. Instead of dwelling on the past we should focus on the present

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Maybe she just needs someone to tell her they understand. Kisses and hugs.

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A one minute trailer from a random narrator can convince you of a character’s intention?
Guess you’ll be easily surprised at any plot twists then.

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Have you even bothered to listen to any of the interviews with the developers, appears not.

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No demon or angel(not counting Tyriel) is a friend of humans.

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Clearly appearances do deceive.

But the real answer here is it doesn’t matter if we think she’s good or evil, or if the nephalem is good or evil, or if angels are good or evil. It’s all perspective and as a nephalem we can swing both ways.

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The trailer itself? No.

However, if we look at everything that we know about Lilith (Diablo 3 RoS journal entries, various novels or books like the Sin War trilogy, Diablo 4 developer updates, etc), then the trailer simply reinforces the idea that Lilith (and Inarius) returning does not bode well for Humanity.

Now you could say that Lilith being back is no more dangerous for Humanity than most powerful demons (like the greater evils), and I’d certainly agree. However, since Lilith is likely a focal point in the Diablo 4 story (for now anyway), there’s going to be more attention on her.

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well when you set about to free an immortal being with a hatred for all living creatures and is determined to engulf all of creation in fire there really is no positive spin you can put on it

after all Sargeras believed himself to be the hero and nuking all planets in the cosmos was a logical and reasonable action

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That unknown person is Rathma, the first of the nephalem apparently.

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Are you sure? Did you know that Rathma hated his mother, and he has tall black hair (not bald) It was the triune.

“the triune who is responsible for helping Lilith return to Sanctuary” - Blizzcon 2019

An old reference to the bald guy being Rathma was later adjusted the bald guy is named Magnus :point_left:

They have concept art of Magnus with Lilith and other members of the triune. Would Rathma hang out with the triune is Rathma even still alive, if so, why did he not help when 90% of the population was killed in RoS? He is about the balance, was the balance off in RoS?

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Lilith is chaotic good for nephalem. We both share a comon goal of protecting Sanctuary and removing demon and angel interference. She has no problem throwing some of us under the bus to achieve that goal. If she kills some of us it’s no big deal.

Inarius on the other hand is chaotic evil towards us. He fears us as one of us beat him like a red headed stepchild. He would rather destroy us and Sanctuary and rebuild it. However without the worldstone his only option is to destroy Sanctuary and us with it.

Now both harbor hate towards both sides of the eternal conflict and this is where I feel the story can be intetesting. It appears we may be siding with Inarius early on since it’s the demons causing problems on Sanctuary. It makes sense to join up with a force trying to destroy them. From the beta clip it appears Lilith tries to get us to join her. Which would make sense if Lilith is the red herring i proposed back in Nov 2019.

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Maybe Lilith just needs a friend.

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Just joking here, but could we give her our resident math genius for example?

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I’m almost certain it was supposed to be Rathma since shes missing a portion of his pinky finger just like Rathma. I thnk the encoding with said Rathma, which was quickly changed to Magnus, and might be Elias in game, may still be Rathma concealing himself to us until the narrative warrants his reveal.

He may hate his mother, but balance triumphs all, and summoning her may be the only way to achieve that balance. He aided her with Mendelen in the Sin War, he could do it again in D4. It would be a shame for Blizzard to basically put Rathma in a cinematic only to reverse course because some people knew it was him at Blizzcon.

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Well Lilith’s goal aligns more with winning the Eternal Conflict, rather than protecting us or Sanctuary. After all, she doesn’t really care if she has to sacrifice us or Sanctuary in order to attain victory. Keep in mind that even when the renegades first created Sanctuary, and thus it was free from Hell’s and Heaven’s influence, Lilith was the only one who thought about achieving total victory against Heaven and Hell, despite such thing being unnecessary as the world was well hidden.

Inarius on the other hand, is (or at least was) the one who would wanted to protect Sanctuary, as from his perspective, it’s his world. Of course, he has no quarrel with eliminating humanity if necessary (and in fact, he likely intends to), as similar to Lilith, they were a reason as to why he was defeated and his “paradise” taken from him. That said, like Lilith, he has no problem with using them to achieve his goals.

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As a sacrifice or a plaything? He would irritate her early on and she would turn him into demon chow.

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