Doesn’t sound like you’ve played a Rat Necro. One wrong move and splat dead. LoN Necro has like no mitigation. One wrong move on a Vyr’s/Chant wiz and it’s like oh darn, my squirts buff dropped.
And that’s the wrong direction to go, if anything all set/builds besides Vyrs need to be brought up in mitigation. Sure it’s good to have risk vs reward, but builds with no risk and all reward are unfair to the other builds, and that’s what Vyr’s/Chants was.
its also unfair to give a build such as the current Vyrs setup to players and then say “oops we screwed up” and force group gameplay to do the same thing. i rather enjoyed this past season running solo Vyrs and not having to rely on finding a group just to do gem ups or paragon farming at the “same” (losely used as LoD Rats gets more xp than solo Vyrs per hour)
“oops we screwed up” is un-intended game mechanics such as the Frailty/Marked for Death interaction, or the old Firebird bug that made it so that as long as an elite was burning at the beginning of the floor and you didnt kill it you could carry it the entire floor. hense why i mentioned in my original post: It is not gamebreaking therefore i see no reason it needs to change
Not going to argue that in fact I agree. These nerfs could have come around when we got our new sets / legendary powers to offset the sting a bit. But perhaps our sets are planned a long way out, it would feel bad for other classes to get new sets and upgraded legendary powers just to be like ‘well, still much less than Vyrs/Chants…thanks for the new toys but looks like I’m running wizard for gem ups once again’.
Perspectives. It’s for the greater good.
You’re giving blizzard too much credit saying they have some long term gear plan… if the new crusader/monk sets this patch did anything, it proves they’re just shooting from this hip and throwing a bunch of crap together.
Yes, Chantodo out classed the other classes sets, but it was a gift to solo players who don’t have the time/opportunity for primarily group play, and that’s who’s getting screwed over here (all the average players). I’d have rather seen each class built up, and progress towards that 150 GR mark instead of tearing them down… but if blizzard did that, they’d have to move the goal post, and can’t have that. All this nerf really does is switch wiz’s back over to Star Pact.
But… on the bright side, think i’ll main a class this season that I haven’t really bothered with before, lol 
Counter Argument: MasterJay please answer me this. when 35-40% of the player base is 7-8k paragon and there are still brand new accounts being made. do you feel it should be right for Blizzard to then nerf UE for speeds? At that kind of paragon UE/Multishot will be doing the EXACT same thing that Vyrs/Chant is doing right now?
The worst part is that according to testing by sVr it’s not even a steady cap, it’s a stupid proc coefficient that limits your damage the higher your attack speed gets. Really? that’s the solution to Vyr’todo? Yet another proc mechanism because the game doesn’t have enough of them?
Counter Argument: MasterJay please answer me this. when 35-40% of the player base is 7-8k paragon and there are still brand new accounts being made.
where did you get those stats?
Probably the same place he got this:
Too strong but what standard? Who’s standard? What arbitrary measure must we abide by? Why?
My Impale build can do 100-110 and never die, hardly a risk of it. Same with my WoL build.
As I said in other threads, this was the last build I could use and have FUN to lvl up gems and para and do it solo. I just don’t have time for groups, I have too much on my plate. Solo players shouldn’t be crapped on in this game, nor should group players. This build in its current form on live server does neither. It hurts no one.
My argument is simple: All builds should be far more powerful and have way more toughness.
I’m tired of hearing about what the time line is for someone reaching GR150 solo as well. Who cares. Just play what you like and enjoy, at least that should be how it works. No…no…no…says Blizzard and emotionally disaffected players who aren’t happy no matter what Blizzard does. Blizzard could decide not to nerf this build and people would still lose their damned minds over it. D3 has so many things wrong with it, and the winey nerf this nerf that player base that wants everything perfect will never stop.
Now I fully understand why so many people bot…
Last point: there are several other very good ARPG’s coming out, and I’ve tried 4 of them now. All of them are better than D3 by miles. If this nerf goes live, I and many others have no reason to play anymore.
Thank you all for you thoughts and opinions. have a blessed day.
The nerf is likely to go live. You may want to check out barbs. If the PTR changes go live, spin to win with auto apply of rend will be an easy top 2 build, I think.
Unfortunately, I think you’re right about it going live.
I honestly hate WW. Its not for me. Just spin around…kind of a visual drag on my eyes. Also, I think the buff to WW/rend isn’t high enough. But nobody will agree with me on that.
You are right, the visuals are not easy on the eyes after extended periods of time. The nerf on the Chantodos really, really sucks for solo players. As others have stated this was one of the best options for solo players to get their gems in the 120+ range without botting for paragons. They were so concerned about this but continue to leave the bazooka wizard (again group setting) that is rife with macro users. Simply ridiculous and a kick in the junk to legitimate solo players.
It’s the fact a lot of Seasonal players who do not play Wiz were rolling a Vyr’s Chantodo Wiz JUST to get gem ups because it IS the strongest build in the game that can be built easily.
It’s disparity with all other builds is the reason why the nerfbat is out.
“It’s disparity with all other builds is the reason why the nerfbat is out.”
You’re correct, of course. But imo, that is still not a justifiable reason.
Again, I think all build are far too weak in many aspects. I feel its done intentionally to keep people away from the higher GR’s and leveling too quickly, and that is bad game management tactics all the way around, and its shameful.
Again…its like setting a time limit on when the max solo GR can be accomplished, and it makes Blizz look bad.
Blizz: group play get GR150? OK, OK. np
Solo get GR140’ish? Not allowed. Must nerf.
anyone who knows the game can calculate with D3 planner the paragon needed to have “damage output” equal to certain builds. i did this research on D3 planner a while ago and tested it on console where i have a sandbox account with 10k paragons. i tested it will your average UE/Multishot gear (nothing modded, stupid console stereo-types) and it ran like a dream.
But that’s not it.
It is:
Solo: Vyr does GR140
Solo: Everything else is 10 GR’s less
I’m sure by the time D3 gets its last patch all classes will do a GR150 solo but the reason why Vyr Chantodo is getting nerfed is because it is ten GR levels above all other things and Blizz cannot leave it in that state whilst they develop all other classes to do the same as that will take multiple patches.
People keep saying it’s 10 levels above but it really isn’t. WD highest world clear is 140, DH 139, Necro 142 etc. Chantodo 144. It is stronger, but not by that much.
Exactly, its not 10 GR’s above Necro, or even Barb now. 10k para for Barb WW/rend did 140 GR. Personally, I think the WW/R is still too weak. It need more power so that people in the 2-4k para range don’t have to fish for hours for a ‘good rift’, and can actually progess with it.
Its the same argument I’m making for Vyr/Chants. They could have slightly lowered the damage output of Chants instead the hidden AS buff. But, I’m confident I will not be listened to on this, so…
For the sake of balance, nerfing one or buffing all the others is the same.
I tested NS PTR in gr 115, By using vyr chando non squirt’s version and tal rasha meteor. Both sets clear time close each other which is 11.43 min .
Tal rasha 4.8 mil dps
vyr 4.4 mil dps
Highest crit dmg, both sets around 90-110 tril dmg. Vyr have absolute zero while tal rasha have non. Nerf should be tuned if this nerf going to be live version soon.