I expect that there will be additional number tweaks before patch 2.6.8 goes live. In the scenario that Blizzard decides no further changes are needed, I wonder what others think will be the rankings of the classes with the highest to lowest top SOLO clears in non-season in patch 2.6.8.
My thoughts are (highest to lowest):
Witch Doctors (145 on PTR Mundunugu)
Crusaders (144 on PTR with nerfed AoV)
Wizards (142 on PTR with LoN hydra)
Barbarians (Currently 146 in era 12, 138 on PTR with Frenzy build)
Monks (Currently 144 in era 12 - No patch 2.6.8 changes)
Demon Hunters (Currently 141 in era 12 - No patch 2.6.8 changes)
Necromancers (Currently 137 in era 12 - No patch 2.6.8 changes)
As you can imagine some of these classes may be quite close anf there could be some flip flops in their order.
I did not see the final PTR leaderboard before it closed yesterday so please let me know in my PTR numbers are off. The current top clears in era refer to the worldwide leaderboard.
This isn’t true.
Speeds can use ww/rend Barb or chantodo/vyr wiz.
Pushing can use mundunugus WD or even possibly non-channeling bazooka wiz for 4p trash
Yes, they will be. Rob from Zero Empathy showed via YouTube how powerful necro will be in 4 player next season due to the theme on seasonal PTR with his necro at 1770 paragon with no augments clearing a 150. The build is likely stronger than witch doctor on ideal maps. Definitely worth checking out.
I would expect them to decrease the damage of witch doctor’s new set bonus and possibly sader as well. Wizard’s new set will likely get a damage increase so that it will be superior to LoN under the right rift conditions. Barb’s new set desperately needs a 2 piece rework since the double damage is based off a hard cc and your attack is constantly stunning due to all runes being used. I’d like to see this changed, but something tells me it won’t. Just my two cents. I’m curious to see the final notes for sure.
My guess for non season next era would be:
1.) Barb
2.) Witch doctor (If nerfed)
3.) Wizard (If buffed)
4.) Monk
5.) Sader (If nerfed again)
6.) Demon hunter
7.) Necro
The reason that I had wizards ahead of barbs is that in patch 2.6.7 PTR, the top non-season solo barb clear was GR 140. In patch 2.6.7a, ww/rend multipliers were slightly less buffed relative to the PTR version and this build still cleared GR 146 in non-season. Given that wizards in this PTR cleared GR 142, you might imagine that even without changes, the top clears may exceed GR 146.
I am not predicting a wizard buff (if anything they might be brought down a smidgen). I am pretty sure that witch doctors will go live as a weakened version of the PTR and Blizzard already mentioned that crusaders may need an additional tweak to lower their power. Of course, I am not Blizzard so time will tell.
I’m really OK with a well-prepared group can handle a 150 in 10 minutes, I wouldn’t think a nerf to WDs is necessary. I EXPECT Magistrate to be buffed slightly be allowing the rune you have selected, if applicable, to be cast instead of baseline.
I expect TV to be buffed pretty significantly.
I don’t think WDs or Necros need a nerf.
Demon Hunters need a buff most urgently, which they won’t get in time for S20; followed by Necros, who will need dramatic changes in S21 after losing the super-cube.
The top “currently in era 12” clears in the OP refer to the top worldwide, as evidenced by their numbers. The ban wave did not affect the numbers that I stated.
The top solo non-season DH clear is in EU @ 141 (Sky). The top barb clear is GR 146 (AS). The top necro is GR 137 (Styx in US).
I did not discuss seasons; however, handfuls of seasonal GR 150 clears for DH exist in the world (10 AS, 5 EU, and more in China).
So, the Frenzy set is 5 GRs below the average. I did a quick search but I couldn’t find any threads from you where you’re advocating for the H90 set to be buffed. You know, in the interest of balance.
Feels weird as a Wizard to be one of the lowest classes. But Hydra should be getting a small buff; Even letting Magistrate cast the equipped FN rune would be enough; or reverting the nerf on Serpent Sparker would make sense as well.
Typhoon’s Veil in general is a mess, though. It probably need a minimum of 1700% per hydra head, and the multitude of bugs fixed before it can compare with LoN. The set DR isn’t applied while shielded!!!
Provided they have any ambition of us playing TV, they’ll have to buff it.
You can not compare live versus PTR clears that way. For those who follow the PTR, live clears always exceed the PTR by several GRs.
The answer is in the original post
and subsequent post
Barbs received buffs that were tested in the last two PTRs (for patch 2.6.7 and patch 2.6.8). For patch 2.6.7, the top non-season clear was Dark’s GR 140 with ww/rend (that went live in patch 2.6.7a as a slightly weaker version) that has now cleared GR 146. The second best solo barbarian non-season PTR clear is a frenzy build at GR 138.
With your math, (1) you’re taking an aggregated snapshot far later in the Era than when we took ours (our data was from roughly early December), and (2) you only have a small slice of overall player data. You’re also (3) excluding players who aren’t within your chosen range, as well as (4) from other regions, rather than accounting for them by adjusting their performance numbers to fit that range.
and this:
Data can be very easily manipulated to prove one thing or another by changing only one or two factors. This is part of the reason that raw Leaderboard data is often very misleading and shouldn’t be taken in a vacuum
First, this is not about 5K paragon balance but the top clear potential in non-season.
Since you brought up Nev’s initial reply, I am persistent. There was an oddity that some of us noticed in their two tables that the majority of classes “lost” GR clear potential due to the pandemonium buff at their 5K paragon metric (i.e. their clears in seasons were less than non-season). The most obvious example was witch doctors (10 GRs and even the more popular class crusaders lost 2 GRs). I pointed this out and received a later reply from Nev that you may want to check out.
Their early data led to their table that Nev acknowledged had “byproducts” /artifacts due to how early their dataset was (~2 weeks old) and that did not adequately address class popularity. The good news is that they are continuing to look at later timepoint to get a more accurate assessment of the data.
